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VEM "Virtual Equipment Module”

Tue, May 3 2016 10:35 AM (104 replies)
  • Romax
    1,876 Posts
    Sun, Apr 13 2014 7:29 AM

    http://www.wgt.com/replay.aspx?ID=f38f822b-8743-47fe-a5d8-a30b0113f72e

    Ummmm...... Question ? Is the "precision circle" always in front of you or is it sometimes behind you ? Just curious.  Lmao.

  • denn13
    43 Posts
    Sun, Apr 13 2014 8:35 AM

    MainzMan:
    It is not VEM messing with your game, it's your own clubs.

    So, it is my clubs that make the ball go to the left when the wind is blowing to the right AND I inadvertently hit the ball to the right?

    It's my clubs that make the ball fall 14 yards short of the green, when basically the SAME shot on another green on the same course left the ball 1 yards shy of the hole?

    MainzMan:
    Sadly you appear unable to accept this, despite many knowledgeable people trying to enlighten you. 

    Here is what I am unable to accept...  I may not be a ledged player, but I've played long enough to know when I've made a bad shot, or if that shot was caused by something else like V.E.M. PERIOD.

    I am the first person to admit when I have made a bad shot.  Hell, I'm not one to blame something on someone or something else unless there is no doubt.  Have you yourself never had a WTF moment?  A moment when you asked the question why did that happened?  The only thing that I ask for is this... turn the damn V.E.M. off!  It is unethical to screw with someone's shot, AND it's cheating.  I have lost balls because of V.E.M.  and that is stealing.  If I don’t hit the ball hard enough and the ball falls in water… that’s my fault and baring any outside influence I will learn from that and hit it harder next time.  However, on St. Andrews hole 1 I was 60 yards from the hole.  Having had problems with that hole before I added an extra 5 yards.  I was willing to shoot on the other side of the hole by 5 yards rather than fall into that stream.  But low and behold the ball fell 17 yards short and into the water anyway!!!

    It has been mentioned to me that my problem is my clubs, and I would be a better player if I would just buy new clubs.  If I buy new clubs can you assure me that V.E.M.  would not be turned back on???  What good will it do to have new clubs if their accuracy is totally diminished by V.E.M.???

    I love this game.  I can’t get out and play real golf because I’m 66, and in a wheelchair for the rest of my life.  I play to win, and to learn from my mistakes so that I can become a better player, but how can you learn from your mistakes knowing that anything that goes bad could have been caused by something completely out of your control?

    One last thing... as long as there is V.E.M.  and people know about it, then they will blame bad shots on V.E.M..  The only time I ever mention V.E.M.  is when it is apparently obvious I just had a WTF moment 

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Sun, Apr 13 2014 9:39 AM

    Romax:
    Ummmm...... Question ? Is the "precision circle" always in front of you or is it sometimes behind you ? Just curious.  Lmao.

    LOL, Been there, 30-40 rough, hit a 3I Punch backwards into the bunker.  That must be a very steep wall!  I've also hit 3I full and caught enough of the wall where the shot went only 30 yds mostly left.

  • CerinoDevoti
    3,232 Posts
    Sun, Apr 13 2014 10:03 AM

    denn13:

     

     

     

    MainzMan:
    It is not VEM messing with your game, it's your own clubs.

    So, it is my clubs that make the ball go to the left when the wind is blowing to the right AND I inadvertently hit the ball to the right?

    It's my clubs that make the ball fall 14 yards short of the green, when basically the SAME shot on another green on the same course left the ball 1 yards shy of the hole?

    MainzMan:
    Sadly you appear unable to accept this, despite many knowledgeable people trying to enlighten you. 

    Here is what I am unable to accept...  I may not be a ledged player, but I've played long enough to know when I've made a bad shot, or if that shot was caused by something else like V.E.M. PERIOD.

    I am the first person to admit when I have made a bad shot.  Hell, I'm not one to blame something on someone or something else unless there is no doubt.  Have you yourself never had a WTF moment?  A moment when you asked the question why did that happened?  The only thing that I ask for is this... turn the damn V.E.M. off!  It is unethical to screw with someone's shot, AND it's cheating.  I have lost balls because of V.E.M.  and that is stealing.  If I don’t hit the ball hard enough and the ball falls in water… that’s my fault and baring any outside influence I will learn from that and hit it harder next time.  However, on St. Andrews hole 1 I was 60 yards from the hole.  Having had problems with that hole before I added an extra 5 yards.  I was willing to shoot on the other side of the hole by 5 yards rather than fall into that stream.  But low and behold the ball fell 17 yards short and into the water anyway!!!

    It has been mentioned to me that my problem is my clubs, and I would be a better player if I would just buy new clubs.  If I buy new clubs can you assure me that V.E.M.  would not be turned back on???  What good will it do to have new clubs if their accuracy is totally diminished by V.E.M.???

    I love this game.  I can’t get out and play real golf because I’m 66, and in a wheelchair for the rest of my life.  I play to win, and to learn from my mistakes so that I can become a better player, but how can you learn from your mistakes knowing that anything that goes bad could have been caused by something completely out of your control?

    One last thing... as long as there is V.E.M.  and people know about it, then they will blame bad shots on V.E.M..  The only time I ever mention V.E.M.  is when it is apparently obvious I just had a WTF moment 

    Well I suppose the golf ball is in your fairway then. You've convinced yourself VEM is in play, you must know by now WGT is NEVER going to remove it or change it.  All the griping everyone else has done about VEM hasn't made a lick of difference either. Play or not, it's up to you. GL

  • MainzMan
    9,586 Posts
    Sun, Apr 13 2014 11:52 AM

    denn13:

    So, it is my clubs that make the ball go to the left when the wind is blowing to the right AND I inadvertently hit the ball to the right?

    It's my clubs that make the ball fall 14 yards short of the green, when basically the SAME shot on another green on the same course left the ball 1 yards shy of the hole?

    Yes, it is.

    There is a very good post somewhere here from one of the WGT staff explaining how the circle of precision and the circle of forgiveness work together.  It is indeed possible to hit the ding and still have the ball travel against the wind if your clubs have low precision and the wind isn't strong.  It is also possible to miss the ding early and have the ball end up to the right of your aim point.

    Your clubs could be compared to a shotgun, they have a very wide shot pattern.  High precision clubs are more like a rifle.   Why this is such a difficult concept to grasp is beyond me.

    In all honesty I don't know why I'm bothering to reply at all.  It isn't going to make any difference.

  • alcaucin
    9,041 Posts
    Sun, Apr 13 2014 3:03 PM

    denn13:
    Are you having a math problem?

    Not normally...

    denn13:
    If you want to know why I have to add 4 yards on that particular shot you'll need to ask WGT.

     I asked YOU but you felt the need to..??  ( offer too teach still stands )

    Here's a song for you..37 secs to 1 min 10 on vid tells you all you need to know !!

    V.E.M.'n eezer good................ <----    lmao

    A great philosopher once wrote ,  naughty , naughty, very naughty..

    ^^ That was Chad towards Cheng Yu !!

     

    Oh, what a carry one......jajaja

  • denn13
    43 Posts
    Mon, Apr 14 2014 1:09 AM

    alcaucin:
     I asked YOU but you felt the need to..??  ( offer too teach still stands )

    My apologies for sounding like a butt hole.  I've had so many people give me a rash of crap over the V.E.M. thing, and I though you were too.

    I would love to learn more about getting better.  Hopefully I'm not as dumb as some on here may think even though I finished university 40 years ago.

    Perhaps you are willing to answer a few things for me; that would help a lot.  Here's my problem; I believe that V.E.M. does exist even though some of the people on here do not, but I also believe it's basically written in to the program and can be turned on or off at anytime.  Trust me, if you can write it in, you can take it out or change it anytime you want.  I retired as a program manager, in other words I was a programmer and had programmers who worked under me.  I believe that WGT has V.E.M. written into the program just to get people to buy new equipment.  There is no way that even a bad club can change characteristics between two holes unless it’s programmed to do so.  You can’t be out on the golf course and use a club, no matter how bad the club is, and it change how far it can hit the ball between one hole and the next and have a difference of 20 yards distance.  Now some people are saying that they like it because it challenges them, and to me that’s just nuts.  I want to play a fair and consistent game and not have someone or the computer changing the properties of the game or the virtual equipment.  I don’t mind having them change how hard the game is, but I want to be able to play a consistent game always.  Some people think I just need to buy new clubs, but my thinking on that is… won’t they just continue to turn the V.E.M. on when I’m playing? Then what is the point of buying new clubs.  Also, I hate to have to buy new clubs because I’m basically being forced to because of them turning on V.E.M.  changing the properties of the game and the virtual equipment.  One might ask why I think that I’ve had V.E.M. turned on while I’m playing.  Some have even accused me of just being a bad player.  While I’ve never had a perfect game I have put in a few 5 unders, and at least one 6 under, and a 114 foot putt; so I know how to play, but I have trouble when you can’t trust the wind or when I’m approaching the green and the ball falls short 10 to 15 yards, I know how hard to hit the ball to get within 5 yards of the hole most of the time IF the V.E.M. is off. While some people may take that as a challenge I do not… it infuriates me.  Now if you can tell me that if I buy new clubs that they will stop the V.E.M., then it might be worth buying new clubs.

    Sorry to ramble on.  Any pointers you are willing to share would be greatly appreciated.

    Dennis Pitts
    denn13

     

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Mon, Apr 14 2014 5:08 AM

    denn13:
    I would love to learn more about getting better.  Hopefully I'm not as dumb as some on here may think even though I finished university 40 years ago

    Some helpful reading. If you were a programming manager you shouldn't have any trouble understanding these informative threads.

    Sgt Bilko's explanation.

    MainzMan's

    Eternalspirit's

  • MainzMan
    9,586 Posts
    Tue, Apr 15 2014 12:58 AM

    Wow, my post is being held up as an example to others.  Thanks Jim.

    Denn, I think the problem is that people see you blaming VEM for every shot that doesn't go where you aim it.  This may well not be the way you're thinking but I think some of us see you looking for a scapegoat and you've chosen the obvious but, in this case, wrong one.

    I honestly believe the problem lies in your clubs, with only 0.5 for precision they're never going to play the same shot twice in a row.  The Nike irons I have have 4.5 dots of precision, that's 9 times the ones you use.  And they still don't land the ball exactly where I aim every shot, nor should they in my opinion.  Have a look for a set of irons with 3 or more precision and you'll see a big difference.

    Your clubs also have very low spin, meaning you aren't able to stop the ball quickly on the green.  This is probably leaving you more long putts which is making your scoring worse. 

    There's a set of G10 irons at level 35, not the best clubs around but they'd improve your scoring no end.

    As to getting better at the game, it's all down to practice and a few tips that get passed along.  One of these is play every course, even the ones you struggle on.  This will improve your course management skills which will help your scores on any course.

    One frequently given and very good piece of advice is to lose the hybrid and get 3 wedges instead.  You currently use the starter wedges, these are pretty poor compared to what else is around.  You don't need to break the bank, there are Ping wedges for 200 a go that will make a huge difference to your short game.  Learn and use punch shots with them too, it's like having another 3 wedges in your bag.  My favourite and most reliable shot is the punch with my 64 wedge, between 10 and around 41 yards I can almost guarantee a short putt with it.

    Get to know the other shot types as well for around the green.  I use pitch a lot under 10 yards, flop very rarely and chip almost never.   When you feel confident around the green you'll enjoy the game much more.

    Sorry for the massive post, there's a hell of a lot to try to pass on.  Far too much for one post but have a browse through the game tips in the forums, there's a huge amount of help there.

     

    And as it happens I do indeed believe VEM exists and is used.  I just think it's something that happens based on your standard of play and is automatically turned up or down accordingly.  I don't think anyone sits in an office watching the games being played and switches it on or off at will.

  • denn13
    43 Posts
    Tue, Apr 15 2014 8:36 AM

    MainzMan:

    Wow, my post is being held up as an example to others.  Thanks Jim.

    Denn, I think the problem is that people see you blaming VEM for every shot that doesn't go where you aim it.  This may well not be the way you're thinking but I think some of us see you looking for a scapegoat and you've chosen the obvious but, in this case, wrong one.

    You're correct...I am not thinking of it that way.  The only time I ever blame V.E.M. is when it is obvious that V.E.M. has kicked in... like when the ball falls 14 yards short of the green.

    I honestly believe the problem lies in your clubs, with only 0.5 for precision they're never going to play the same shot twice in a row.  The Nike irons I have have 4.5 dots of precision, that's 9 times the ones you use.  And they still don't land the ball exactly where I aim every shot, nor should they in my opinion.  Have a look for a set of irons with 3 or more precision and you'll see a big difference.

    I don't mind buying new clubs if that will help, but as I've said before... if I do and V.E.M. kicks in after I buy the clubs what good are they?

    Your clubs also have very low spin, meaning you aren't able to stop the ball quickly on the green.  This is probably leaving you more long putts which is making your scoring worse. 

    There's a set of G10 irons at level 35, not the best clubs around but they'd improve your scoring no end.

    As to getting better at the game, it's all down to practice and a few tips that get passed along.  One of these is play every course, even the ones you struggle on.  This will improve your course management skills which will help your scores on any course.

    I had been told by a couple of Legends and Masters (Which I am now) to stick to one course until I got good and then move on to other courses.  I now have moved on and join other games to many difference courses.

    One frequently given and very good piece of advice is to lose the hybrid and get 3 wedges instead.  You currently use the starter wedges, these are pretty poor compared to what else is around.  You don't need to break the bank, there are Ping wedges for 200 a go that will make a huge difference to your short game.  Learn and use punch shots with them too, it's like having another 3 wedges in your bag.  My favourite and most reliable shot is the punch with my 64 wedge, between 10 and around 41 yards I can almost guarantee a short putt with it.

    Get to know the other shot types as well for around the green.  I use pitch a lot under 10 yards, flop very rarely and chip almost never.   When you feel confident around the green you'll enjoy the game much more.

    I am the same way, I use pitch a lot and very rarely use chip or flop. Just seems to work better for me.

    Sorry for the massive post, there's a hell of a lot to try to pass on.  Far too much for one post but have a browse through the game tips in the forums, there's a huge amount of help there.

     

    And as it happens I do indeed believe VEM exists and is used.  I just think it's something that happens based on your standard of play and is automatically turned up or down accordingly.  I don't think anyone sits in an office watching the games being played and switches it on or off at will.

    When I first started I became very good very fast.  I've always had good hand/eye coordination.  But after awhile things started happening that just didn't make any sense.  I started checking into it and found out that the makers of the game had written this V.E.M. sub routine.  I still think it's cheating and uneithical.  As I've said so many times before, make the game harder to play if you want to, but just don't cheat people by screwing with their shots.

     

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