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VEM "Virtual Equipment Module”

Tue, May 3 2016 10:35 AM (104 replies)

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denn13

43 Posts

Sat, Apr 12 2014 6:47 PM

alcaucin:
If the hole is 79 yrds away, why would you hit it 83 yrds ?

Because if I hit the ball 79 yards it will fall short 4 yards. Are you having a math problem? If you want to know why I have to add 4 yards on that particular shot you'll need to ask WGT.

Jimbog1964

8,378 Posts

Sat, Apr 12 2014 7:08 PM

denn13:

alcaucin:
If the hole is 79 yrds away, why would you hit it 83 yrds ?

Because if I hit the ball 79 yards it will fall short 4 yards. Are you having a math problem? If you want to know why I have to add 4 yards on that particular shot you'll need to ask WGT.

A very good player with quality stats asks a question, offers to help, and you give him that? If it was not intended to come across wrong you may wish to rephrase it. Or not bother to learn, and stick to the easy route of wrongly blaming VEM here and another thread I guess.......

CerinoDevoti

3,232 Posts

Sat, Apr 12 2014 7:50 PM

denn13:

I have been playing for about a year and a half now. I love the game but I HATE V.E.M. I not only consider it cheating on WGT's part, but it is also uneithical.

I've bought a driver, and 3 wood and a putter. BUT... I will not buy any more clubs. What is the sense in buying better clubs and what good are they going to do if V.E.M. is turned on. I can't see spending a lot of money to make better shots when they're just going to turn the V.E.M. on and screw up your shot anyway. What good does it do to try and do better just to have the V.E.M. turned on.

I have two monitors; I play on the right monitor and have a spread sheet open on the left monitor with 3 columns. (1) Yards to hole. (2) Club to use (3) how much (in yards) of the club should I use. In other words, Example: If the hole is 79 yards, I have it already written down to use a P wedge at 83 yards. So after 18 months I have it already figured out how hard to hit the ball to land close to the flag, then use the skills I have learned to putt... IF the V.E.M. doesn't kick in.

I play the game for two reasons. To get better than I am, and to win the game. I still to this day can not figure out the mindset of those who enjoy having WGT screw with your game and making you miss a shot. To me that is just plain stupid.

If WGT wants to make the game harder I have no problem with that. Hell, make the holes smaller. Make the clubs not hit the ball as far, have stronger winds, more sand traps, more bunkers, faster slopes on the green... WHATEVER, but until WGT stops screwing with my game and making me miss a shot when THEY decide for me to miss... I WILL NOT buy more clubs and I've decided to start using house balls. Leave my game alone, GET RID OF V.E.M. and I'll buy better clubs and balls.

Use the V.E.M. on the idiots who like it...

I took a look at your clubs and I think that's the problem. You've got a high level driver and low level irons and wedges. Those are scoring clubs. The ones in your bag are nearly the most inaccurate set of irons other than the starter clubs and the wedges are the most inaccurate and have the least amount of backspin. Pretty much a recipe for bad play and frustration if you want to score low. I don't think this supposed VEM has anything to do with scoring issues in your case. Looking at your average and the tees you're playing from, you must be a very good putter. Your average is actually very good with that mix of clubs.

DaveStrock

919 Posts

Sat, Apr 12 2014 8:41 PM

Just a tad to much VEM on this one WGT........

yldcatz

65 Posts

Sat, Apr 12 2014 9:08 PM

DarkenRahl

2,115 Posts

Sat, Apr 12 2014 11:57 PM

I keep the thread this is copied from in my bookmarks, but for the OP - what a lot of the responses are saying is that you are confusing VEM and precision. I have never seen a better explanation than this one.

WGTniv:

Wow, you guys have made this so amazingly more complicated than it is. Let me see what I can do to simplify this...

The game is pretty simple. Precision controls your accuracy. Imagine it's like a circle that surrounds the flagstick when you aim at it. The size of that circle is related to the precision rating. The higher the rating the smaller the circle. Your ball can land anywhere in the circle on a dinged shot (left or right, long or short). It will ALWAYS land in the circle on a ding shot, though sometimes it may land in the center of the circle and sometimes it may land on the very outer edge or anywhere in between those two points. When it lands on the outer edge this is what you guys have come to know as "the beast". Was the shot pre-programmed? Does it know you're standing on the 17th hole at Kiawah? No, it's just unfortunate timing. The result you see is the logical spread dictated by the precision rating of the club over 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 shots taken on the site. No matter how big or small the sample it's amazingly consistent because it is after all only a simple mathematical formula. The shot data is spread out amongst all users, so there will be times when you run into a lot of "edge cases" (aka deviations, aka outside edge of the precision circle) and times where you seemingly can't miss the center (even when you mishit). This is the ebb and flow of the game and it's always been there. In the short term you will have "bad" days and "good" days. In the long term (providing they are using the same clubs) any one player will see the same amount of "edge cases" or "deviations" that the rest of the players do.

And that's all there is to it! The other theories can be put to bed. There's no behind the scenes tweaking, no changing club attributes based on skill and no hidden mechanism that knows when you're on a water hole. It's just a formula that runs exactly the same for every single shot and it has no idea (nor does it care) where you are on the course. It doesn't matter if it's the first tee shot on #1 or the winning 10-foot putt in the USGA Virtual Championship. The formula runs the exact same calculation every single time and you're always at risk for an "edge case". How far away an "edge case" can take you depends solely on your precision rating for that club. The higher the precision rating (and conversely the more lofted the iron) the less "edge cases" will take you away from where you aimed.

Course releases have ZERO affect on your clubs. When a course is released it's just assets, hole maps, minimaps, HD photos and stuff that has absolutely no affect on your clubs. Us adding a JPG picture file (or 100,000 of them) does not change the way your approach shot on Kiawah #2 interacts with the green. Each course has it's own settings and each course comes with it's own set of "surfaces". If you go into Oakmont expecting your clubs to interact the same way they do on Kiawah then you've already made your first mistake. Every course has it's own nuances right down to how the ball is affected by elevation and break and you'll have to figure that out with practice. While adjusting to those nuances you may forget the nuances you learned on the older courses and get stuck in between your adjustments. That happens to me too. A new course comes out and suddenly I can't make a putt on Kiawah because I've spent so much time learning how to play the new breaks on Oakmont. As a result I end up over-playing breaks on everything for a short time while I adjust.

Hope that clears some of this confusion up. You fellas certainly come up with some wild ideas, but it's no where near as complicated or convoluted as some of you seem to think it is. Remember, keep it simple because it really is simple. =)

And if alcaucin were offering to give ME lessons, I would be a willing student, just saying.

alanti

10,564 Posts

Sun, Apr 13 2014 12:40 AM

DarkenRahl:
And if alcaucin were offering to give ME lessons, I would be a willing student, just saying.

LOL - He gave me a lesson once whack. whack putt......thats how it is done he said.....great guy even if he does bar me from music threads :)

That is a good explanation by WGTniv but despite that some players fail to understand the difference in precision, VEM and their own inabilities to play this game.

The vast majority of my poor shots/results thereof, are my doing not manipulation.

MainzMan

9,586 Posts

Sun, Apr 13 2014 1:33 AM

denn13:

What is the sense in buying better clubs and what good are they going to do if V.E.M. is turned on.

It's very, very simple. Andy has already said it, along with others.

andyson:

Now on to your clubs.....You have really low precision irons and wedges!

Have you ever heard the term circle of precision? This is the circular area, centered on the aim point, that your ball will land in if you play a shot perfectly. With high precision clubs that circle is small, with the irons you're using that circle is the size of a roundabout. No matter how well you plan and execute the shot the ball will not always land in the same place. How boring would it be if it did anyway?

It is not VEM messing with your game, it's your own clubs.

Sadly you appear unable to accept this, despite many knowledgeable people trying to enlighten you.

And whoever told you to play the same course over and over and over again gave you very bad advice. Why did you believe them and not Andyson?