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Vem

Wed, May 1 2024 4:58 PM (30 replies)
  • SamSpayed
    4,913 Posts
    Wed, Apr 10 2024 10:25 AM

    borntobesting:

    Chad Nelson AKA MisterWGT stated in a live chat many years ago "Yes the technology of VEM does exist. But it has never been implemented. What you see from time to time is the random deviation built into the game".

    I am sure that is still the case.  Many people confuse "variance" (which is part of the game) with VEM.

  • lonniescott711
    4,184 Posts
    Sun, Apr 14 2024 10:18 AM

    SamSpayed:
    Many people confuse "variance" (which is part of the game) with VEM.

    Actually VEM is the name of the program and variance is what it does . It determines the outcome of your game as you play . Both good and bad shots are regulated by VEM . From tees to green the variables of the game are all determined by the game . Is it applied fairly to all players of course not . The leaderboards of the monthly tournaments clearly show this to be true . 

    The consistent low scoring by some players is the reason that I say this . Its also the reason that many good and even top players have left the game over the years . If you`ll play the game and pay attention to the game play and not just play the game you will see this . 

    This topic is not new and has been discussed over the years multiple times . If you use the search feature >>>>>>>>>>> and type in VEM you will find plenty of material to read . I encourage all new players to search the forum threads as there is a ton of information help you along the way . Play well and have fun :-)

  • SamSpayed
    4,913 Posts
    Sun, Apr 14 2024 1:51 PM

    lonniescott711:
    Actually VEM is the name of the program and variance is what it does .

    For reference, here is the link to WGT's patent on VEM: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20070243926A1/

    Reading the patent:  you can think of VEM as an adjustment to the variance parameters that are built (separately) into the game.  But, it's a moot point.  Like Chad Nelson / MisterWGT said, VEM was never implemented.

    Yes, there is variance built into the game.  But the biggest part of what determines the outcome of your shot or putt is what you do as the player - eg. how well you read the wind or the dots or the contours of where you shot lands, how close you come to hitting the ding, etc.

    IMHO, people need to start taking responsibility for their own mistakes and stop blaming the mystical VEM gods anytime one of their shots or putts goes awry.

  • HamdenPro
    2,424 Posts
    Sun, Apr 14 2024 2:15 PM

    The simple fact is that no one can say VEM is, or is not, being used unless that person has access to WGT servers and knows what is in the server side of the software.

  • HamdenPro
    2,424 Posts
    Sun, Apr 14 2024 3:02 PM

    SamSpayed:
    Like Chad Nelson / MisterWGT said, VEM was never implemented.

    Yep, and Putin said that Ukraine belongs to Russia...

  • BrianCheese
    40 Posts
    Mon, Apr 15 2024 9:02 AM

    HamdenPro:

    SamSpayed:
    Like Chad Nelson / MisterWGT said, VEM was never implemented.

    Yep, and Putin said that Ukraine belongs to Russia...

    THIS ^^^ so much. I was going to say it. Just because someone connected to WGT says it's true.

    I have given Sam and any others in my CC lots of examples where 'variance' simply shouldn't react the way it does. Wayward shots despite hitting the ding; making sure my pointer is where I want it not put somewhere where it can interpret it differently; and not just crazy bad shots, but also crazy bad shots that have miraculously gone in or landed pin high and a foot away, especially in games where I'd just about given up.

    I've been harping on at times for years about how I did, then didn't, think the game is fixed and truth be told I've been erring to no fixed for a few years, but I think there are two different games here - there's ranked rounds - playing to reduce your handicap, which, of course leads you to probably have to upgrade your equipment to maintain your 'level' and then there's coin games which is where I see far more 'manipulation' or insanely ridiculous shots going in, almost like the outcome of the game you're playing has been predetermined.

    My personal jury is out on tournaments; I think there's a handicap system in place, but as I don't tend to function the same way in a tourney the way I do on a ranked round I've always been inclined to think it was me.

    Like I said to Sam, elsewhere, just the concept, the idea, that VEM exists seems to add to my belief that something is at play in WGT that destroys my belief it isn't fixed and if the idea was originally mooted to be an 'aid' for lesser players to keep them interested in the game, therefore keep them playing and possibly spending money; this makes perfect sense to me being sceptical of capitalism and what it will do to make money for shareholders...

  • SamSpayed
    4,913 Posts
    Mon, Apr 15 2024 12:18 PM

    HamdenPro:

    The simple fact is that no one can say VEM is, or is not, being used unless that person has access to WGT servers and knows what is in the server side of the software.

    The only ones who can tell us for sure would be WGT.  Chad (who represented WGT at the time) said that VEM was never implemented.  I choose to believe him.  You, of course, can choose not to.

  • HamdenPro
    2,424 Posts
    Mon, Apr 15 2024 1:10 PM

    SamSpayed:
    The only ones who can tell us for sure would be WGT.  Chad (who represented WGT at the time) said that VEM was never implemented.  I choose to believe him.  You, of course, can choose not to.

    Actually, Chad said, at the time, VEM was not being used, he never said it had never been implemented.

    WGT could not function, the way it does, without the Virtual Equipment Module.  In fact, WGTPizza said the same thing. WGTPizza acknowledged that VEM was an integral part of the programming,and that it could be manipulated by WGT, however, he went on to say that WGT does not use VEM to manipulate a player's game. Further, VEM is not utilized in tournament games as it would be improper to manipulate tournaments.

    My understanding, is that the primary function of VEM is more to assist less skilled players and as a player's skill level improves the "VEM effect" diminishes.

    Nonetheless, you are correct, about choosing to believe, I believe VEM is operational and used, but not in the way that Brian perceives it. However, a lower skilled player may get some
    breaks" assisted by VEM but not enough, IMO, to beat a more skilled player unless the more skilled player is having an off game.

    Take you and I for example. We have played together a "gazillion" times. I think I may have had a better score twice. I am confident on those occasions, I was playing better than usual, and getting some breaks (maybe with some VEM assistance) while you, most likely, were having an "off" game.

     

     

  • BrianCheese
    40 Posts
    Wed, Apr 17 2024 4:53 AM

    My problem now is the idea at the back of my head that it might come into play; that it might be used to predetermine the outcome of predominantly coin games - to level the playing field when a tour pro plays a legend or even when a legend plays a champion (I'm batting about a 90% win rate against TLs, Cs and TCs at the moment) and I'm not convinced it's me playing brilliantly and they have an off day. A Champion I beat easily the other day commented (and I quote) "I just don't understand this game some days." I take that from a champion as cynical bewilderment and he'd never heard of VEM and when I suggested he look it up he asked me if I thought the game was rigged in some way. So I'm thinking maybe a small percentage of users even both with these forums and are blissfully ignorant of any possible controversy.

  • SamSpayed
    4,913 Posts
    Tue, Apr 23 2024 11:08 AM

    BrianCheese:
    My problem now is the idea at the back of my head that it might come into play; that it might be used to predetermine the outcome of predominantly coin games - to level the playing field when a tour pro plays a legend or even when a legend plays a champion

    That's not what VEM is or does at all.  It does not predetermine anything, and the game is not rigged to make higher tiers lose to lower tiers in coin rooms.  Read the patent (link in previous post above).

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