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• PRIESTESS 10,705 Posts

  Tue, Jan 11 2011 10:40 PM

  Some great responses,The fact is this,If a 2 mph wind pointing at 5 0 clock, can move that dinged shot  40 feet left,If it isnt VEM then what causes it,,Is it simply a glitch on that particular hole?Maybe some holes are prone to glitches and that's it.!,This may well be the answer because it seems to be the same holes getting the same bad reputation,No one mentions,kiawa  1st  or 2nd or 3rd or 4th..so maybe its a system glitch on these holes that where most players seem to be experiencing huge deviations,And maybe wgt programmed these particular holes to glitch randomly every now and again to throw a spanner in the works, so to speak,Who knows? :)

• BolloxInBruges 1,389 Posts

  Wed, Jan 12 2011 1:46 AM

  PRIESTESS:

  Some great responses,The fact is this,If a 2 mph wind pointing at 5 0 clock, can move that dinged shot  40 feet left,If it isnt VEM then what causes it,,Is it simply a glitch on that particular hole?Maybe some holes are prone to glitches and that's it.!,This may well be the answer because it seems to be the same holes getting the same bad reputation,No one mentions,kiawa  1st  or 2nd or 3rd or 4th..so maybe its a system glitch on these holes that where most players seem to be experiencing huge deviations,And maybe wgt programmed these particular holes to glitch randomly every now and again to throw a spanner in the works, so to speak,Who knows? :)

  It is not VEM, it's the standard deviation built into every club.   There is no club with 5 out of 5 precision available in the pro shop, so shots are not expected to go directly where you aimed.  You hit a 3 iron in your example, that is one of the most difficult clubs to control, and a few times a month you get one of those dinged shots where you say "what was that???" 

  It can certainly be annoying when you catch a particularly nasty deviation at a critical time, but I am glad they are a part of the game.  It goes against the nature of golf to know exactly where every shot will end up the moment you strike it,

• lvietri 3,326 Posts

  Wed, Jan 12 2011 3:58 AM

  To try to answer Heath's question.   While I'm not a good player at all .. I do have the opportunity to play with some of the best folks on here at times.    After 18 months I'm just starting to learn ... the reason they are so good is ... they don't treat this as just as GOLF they way I do ... they treat it as a Golf Video Game.    Some examples - 

  2 of us playing .. we both hit drives .. same clubs same balls ... mine is 20 yards short ... So i ask why and am told ... "on this hole back off the driver a bit so you hit the downslope on the fairway and the ball bounces forward" .... I hit it too hard .. hit right into an upslope and didn't catch the roll ....... The better players hit their drives to certain spots to either get distance or set up their 2nd shot.    They know where to hit their drives - I don't.

  Same is true for shots to the green.    I asked one guy who is exceptionally good how he birdies Kia 4 a lot ... he told me he aims his 2nd shot to the right of the pin .. at the upslope on the green.    When he hits it there and hits it right ... the ball stops and he has a good shot at birdie .....   Meanwhile I play it safe to the left .. make par most of the time but F up a lot too.   They know the greens ... I don't.

  And on putts ... let's face it ... the green map outs are not perfect .. but after thousands of rounds ... these folks just know where to hit the ball and how hard .... I'm learning but I don't have the same kind of memory they do.    

  If you ever get the opportunity to hook up with an Iconian, Bollox, AvLee, Priestess, Dansamcan, Coolswing or any of the premier players players on here ... ask them to tell you what shots to hit.  Which club, Full/Punch, how hard, spin, where to aim, etc. etc.   You will be amazed at how good you can shoot also.     

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Wed, Jan 12 2011 5:11 AM

  BolloxInBruges:

  It goes against the nature of golf to know exactly where every shot will end up the moment you strike it,

  This ought to be put in capital letters right next to the WGT logo on the front page and a stock answer for deviation complaints.  :-)

• AvatarLee 1,644 Posts

  Wed, Jan 12 2011 5:27 AM

  Heath021:

  How do these deviations not effect the same players that are constantly on top. Dont understand how the same players over and over keep winning. I hit the dinger alot but still cant seem to shoot any lower than a 31 most of the time. Yet players...not to mention any names consistently shoot 55s or 27s in tournaments where money is involved. I am so frustrated seeing this!

  A lot comes down to the ability to recover from bad shots and make a good/great shot for the par save or even the birdie save from a bad bit of luck/meter/deviation.  One of the benefits of being around from the beginning is we learned to play the hard shots, because in the history of WGT the gameplay ALWAYS got harder before it got easier, like when Bethpage was first released in May of '09 there were literally hundreds of post on how difficult this course was with the clubs available at the time.  But the best persevered, learned from mistakes and how to recover from them.... Then the better clubs came out and we started to dominate the course, so they moved us back a set of tees.... rinse and repeat.  Right now we are in the learning curve of the last "adjustment" in difficulty and scores are starting to come down again as we re-learn what to do and what not to do.  It's not all about the ding.  Those players shooting 55s and 27s (not too many of them right now) are the ones who have been through these cycles many times and know how to adjust. 

  Heath021:

  Would someone please try to explain. I hit perfect puts...so i think...to have them stop 2 inches from the hole about 4 times a round. Does this not happen to them, or are they some made up players. I sometimes wonder if these players are human.

  I really wish I could explain this one, of late I have had many many putts pull up short, which is unusual for me because I'm a pretty aggressive putter.... even more so right now I keep over-reading the break and sailing it over the top side of the hole...  but I will adjust and they will start falling again, it's just a cycle and it will pass.

  So please, stop the insinuations and realize that the people that shoot the scores you are talking about work hard and put a lot of time in to learn the ins and outs of each course through many rounds of play.

   

• pluer 142 Posts

  Wed, Jan 12 2011 5:41 AM

  2 of us playing .. we both hit drives  .... . . - I found most of the 350yard drive kicks, Lol.

  Same is true for shots to the green - check my replay how I play K4...

  And on putts ...Bollox mentioned it already, there is no putter and no iron with 5 out of 5 precision, If u hit a 3 Iron with 100% power - don't expect your ball to fly straight, more backspin - less tolerance. I started to hit my 3-5 irons with 95 % power only and I can see the diference - the ball stops better - f.e. Andys 4, K6, Oakmont 7.....

  After one year with WGT, 200 eagles, 170 holed shots I can say I played few good rounds, so I remember most of the f*kups. C U, Pluer

• PRIESTESS 10,705 Posts

  Wed, Jan 12 2011 6:29 AM

  After doing this today in a Ready go , I dont think i will complain no more,:) almost bagged the 14 footer on 18 too

• jbenny11 863 Posts

  Wed, Jan 12 2011 6:38 AM

  Tess, feel free to complain away, it's obvious you caught a dev on that putt on #18. ;-) Nice round. JB

• PRIESTESS 10,705 Posts

  Wed, Jan 12 2011 6:48 AM

  Well funny you should say that!!:):)That story is for another day,:)

• kam4122 1,695 Posts

  Wed, Jan 12 2011 7:45 AM

  Really interesting discussion about VEM and I believe what people are experiencing is certainly due to a mixture of AAVEM (Automatically Adapting Virtual Equipment Model) coupled to known deviation variables with a side order of longer club dispertion and wind effect.

  VEM on its own is not going to create the 'beast' result but it is an attributable factor. In the gaming world creating a variable performance S curve is the holy grail, how do you keep players interested when they reach close to the pinnacle of performance? You do it by never letting them actually reach the pinnacle, the closer they get the less forgiving you make the equipment. I would describe deviation or circle of accuracy as a means to foster a level of realism in the game, even the best frequency matched swing weighted clubs will still have a level of shot dispertion through the bag, with the highest dispertion area associated with the longest club.

  VEM is different, it is a specifically designed mechanism to make the game harder or easier associated with your current skill level with a piece of current virtual equipment, and with so much of our equipment sharing common attributes (we have to carry a full set of irons) if those irons become more difficult to use then scores will temporarily decline. the smart bit is the adaption, once your current skill drops back down they become easier to score with again and your scores improve.

  This is essentially inperceptable unless one was tracking scores over a period of several weeks playing static conditions without changing equipment, it just means the user is aware of having good days and bad days, or feeling they are in a slump or just can't miss! Couple your club being harder to hit, a large deviation with a long club it is going to create some of the 'what the...' shots people experience.

  Fear not though, purchasing new equipment and you are resetting your data! Recently a top player said to me he had re bought his irons again, and found them easier to hit and they seemed to have a slower meter!

  Fair play to WGT if they have achieved this, yes on one hand it is designed to keep us spending, playing, looking at adverts etc, but on the other it is keeping us challenged, keeping the game interesting and keeping it realistic. We would get bored very quickly if everything was predictable.