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WGT vs. EA Tiger Woods online

Sun, Aug 30 2009 10:31 PM (91 replies)
  • nivlac
    2,188 Posts
    Thu, Aug 27 2009 8:38 PM

    I don't seem to have any trouble following the ball, but I play in the presentation cam.

    I also created a World Golf Tour group.   If anyone from WGT would like to join just send a request there.

  • GSpinks1962
    106 Posts
    Fri, Aug 28 2009 3:43 AM

    Is it just me or is that 3rd version a real step back over the last?

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Fri, Aug 28 2009 5:39 AM

    nivlac:
    I also created a World Golf Tour group.   If anyone from WGT would like to join just send a request there.

    But there is, as of today, no option to play multi-player games in TWO, is there? I couldn't find any mention of multi-player it in the menus or FAQ. The lack of multi-player would decidedly make TWO inferior compared to WGT.

  • nivlac
    2,188 Posts
    Fri, Aug 28 2009 9:54 AM

    Nope, nothing yet in terms of multi but that's not an all or nothing thing for me.  Maybe next beta period they'll start offering that.  TW without multiplayer is like school in summertime.

    I recommend checking our their tournament system, it's pretty sweet.  They have daily single round tournaments and weekly 4-rounders (although it's still all unlimited play boo).  WGT could steal a few good ideas from TW in regards to the way they offer tourneys and how they are presented.

    TW's biggest plus right isn't even the game itself. It's their dev transparency.  The devs there list every single update and fix no matter how minor or insignificant it is.  That's a big deal for the "hey, what's going on, what are we working on" crowd.  WGT could afford to be more like TW in this respect.  Case in point, we had a surprise 4 hour "update" here last night and not a soul knows why.  People were playing along last night and were just randomly cut off.  No warning, nothing.  That's not cool. =(

  • Fuzzygazz
    1,469 Posts
    Fri, Aug 28 2009 5:02 PM

    Agree with niv.. Could not believe how fast  TW turned out a new update. Interface was very nice.

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Fri, Aug 28 2009 10:21 PM

    Fuzzygazz:
    Interface was very nice.

    But it looks a bit too cluttered for my taste, and compared to the clarity of design of this site, doesn't it?

    A thing I definitely don't like about TWO's game interface is that when you're about to hit the ball, it does not show the information on the current number of your shot, let alone your current status for the round. (See this screenshot.)

    I think I read an interview with WGT founders somewhere, where they said their inspiration for WGT's interface were TV broadcasts of Major tournaments. In that sense, they got it exactly right: WGT's game screen makes it very clear what hole you're playing, which shot you're about to hit, and what's your current score for the round.

  • gadzuks
    44 Posts
    Sat, Aug 29 2009 12:17 PM

           TIBBETS.................

    tibbets:

    We've seen the debates throughout the forums about the lack of realism in the TW games, and how this game more resembles true golf etc.  I think that with the advent of TW online competing with WGT, the time has come to really assess the fundamental questions regarding why we would choose one over the other.

    Yes, we all know how the TW game has had some pretty silly features added to it in the past, where character development took place to such a degree that you could hit 350+ drives all the time and score in the low 50's every round.  The console game was even worse, with the player being able to control the spin and flight of the ball in mid-air etc.  I think we're all in agreement that no one really wants those kind of features in a game deemed "most realistic".

    What is "most realistic", however?  Is it simply about having HD photos as your course rather than a computer generated course based on the same thing?  I would say no, realism in a golf game is mostly about the physics engine, and how well the ability to play a shot in the digital realm compared to the real game of golf.

    As we take a closer look at this "realism", you'll find that what we deal with here is not very realistic either.  For instance, take a look at your club distances for starters.  The only things that these clubs 'realistically' resemble is Junior golf, at best.  Also, look at the scores of the top players.  Think about all the golfers you have ever played with in real life.  Do you know any golfers who hit with these distances, with clubs that have no spin, that don't draw or fade the ball into particular hole positions, and shoot low 60's on a Professional course from the Blue tees?  Of course you don't.  In order to shoot in the low 60's, a real golfer needs all of those capabilities of superior equipment and skill, and there are very few in the world who can accomplish that.  Case in point:  The real course record for Bethpage Black is 64.  I shot that very score on my first day of qualifying, with the Tour Starter set and a driver that is rated  240 yds.  In reality, anyone shooting with those kind of clubs and distances would shoot a number twice that amount on the Black!

    So, we're not really talking about a "realistic" game here either.  What we currently play is Junior-level, links-style golf on non-links courses.  The scores and stats aren't realistic, the distances of the clubs aren't realistic....all that's "real" are the beautiful images in HD we are fortunate to play on as a backdrop.  The proprietary physics engine that this game utilizes is actually great, but it's greatness is diminished by the addition of large deviations to your shot, making it so that even when you hit the "Excellent!" line, you are still wondering if your ball is going to end up anywhere near where you aimed it.

    So, now we've come down to the crux of the issue.  If the club distances aren't realistic, the scores and stats aren't realistic, and the random deviations off the perfect line aren't realistic, then all we're left with are the great HD photographs of the real course.  That's simply not enough to justify any purist's argument that this game is "more real" than TW. 

    Some may say, "Well, golf isn't a science, you shouldn't be able to measure up every shot so precisely".  You couldn't be more wrong.  In the real game, you've got GPS units that map out every square inch of the course, and at the Pro level, those guys know exactly how much club to use and what to expect out of each of their shots.  The pin placements and greens at that level are so incredibly difficult... it's only due to those players having charted shot after shot for many hours a day over the course of many years that they can execute any of those shots you see on TV with such precision.  They chart every motion of their swing, every nuance of ball positioning, heck, there isn't one thing that a professional golfer doesn't chart.  That's science folks, like it or not.

    There is a science behind  programming the physics of every shot you take here, too.  The reason it seems so close to real here is that the physics engine being used does a great job of figuring trajectory, spin, arc, speed etc. and rendering it into what you see as your shot.  If that's not a science, I don't know what is.  We're playing a video game, you don't have the club in your hands, there's nothing to "feel" in this realm...other than your heart racing as you try for a crucial putt, or your emotions getting out of control when you make or miss it!  That's what WGT does a great job at, and for that I applaud them.

    Where is this all going?  Well, we have to decide what we're here for in the first place.  This is a game, so I guess we're here to have fun, first and foremost.  Right now, this game isn't all that much fun for me.  Personally, I've taken 'my game' to as good as a level as it can possibly get within the boundaries of the system in place.  Honestly, the only things that really stop me these days are random deviations that leave my ball 20 ft from the hole as opposed to 5ft.  They are things that are out of my control, and after playing this game as much as I have, it's a never-ending source of frustration to know that even when I perform and execute well, my fate  really isn't in my hands all that much.   That, to me, isn't fun. If I wanted that kind of game and experience, I'd play the lottery.   Think about every other computer game you've ever played, and add whatever the equivalent of a 'random deviation' would be into that game, and ask yourself if that game would have been as much fun for you as it was.  My guess is, not.

    WGT is going to have to take a long, hard look at it's strategy from here on in, since it's going to have some competition in the online realm.  People are going to have a choice as to which they play.  Comb through these forums and you'll see numerous mentions of the displeasure with the club distances, with the "Beast" (if you've been around awhile, you'll know what I mean by that), with putts that drift opposite of how they read etc.  Are the HD photos enough realism to keep people here if they have a choice?  Given the choice of having a shot go very near where it's aimed on a decent CGI simulation , or having it drift 7 yards left for no reason on a 95 yard shot after they just hit the "Excellent!" line on beautiful HD photos, which do you think they'll choose?

    Think about it.

                                     are you sure you didn't copy my posts...lol...touche'...ditto...i agree with every stroke of your keypad!!!

       i too wonder what the future will bring...

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Sat, Aug 29 2009 12:25 PM

    nivlac:
    I don't seem to have any trouble following the ball, but I play in the presentation cam.

    Switching to the "presentation camera" in TWO doesn't resolve anything for me. I never see the ball, only the camera panning from side to side, which is supposed to indicate which direction the ball is flying.    This is a complete joke. Before I switched to the presentation camera, I was regularly offered views of rooftops throughout my approach to the 1st green. Even when the textual feedback for the shot said Perfect!, I was presented with the close-up view of a rooftop instead of the fairway. In a way this is so bad it makes you laugh.

    I then switched to the "presentation" camera for holes 2 & 3, but there was no real improvement. Can't see the ball. And the greatest travesty comes during putting or chipping from bunker. The camera backs away from you & the green, and "shows" you the green and your putt/chip from a huge distance of maybe 150 yards!    The "putting preview" feature (whatever that is supposed to mean!) does the same thing: it shows you the green from 150 yards or so away, and apparently nothing happens. This is the view I was presented with on hole 2 when I made the "perfect!" putt (clicking the thumbnails will enlarge them):

     

    And this is the view I was presented with when I chipped from a greenside bunker at hole 3:

     

    So, TWO is a joke at its current stage and no competition for WGT by any stretch of imagination, notwithstanding the good communication about developers' work & the daily tournaments. (PS: Congratulations to Tibbets on that round of 55 & the 380+yd drive he's already accomplished over there right on the day he joined the site, if I'm not mistaken. )

  • nivlac
    2,188 Posts
    Sat, Aug 29 2009 12:47 PM

    I don't understand that at all.  I've played 10 rounds on that game so far and have seen my ball on every single shot... 

    I am quite perplexed.

  • nivlac
    2,188 Posts
    Sat, Aug 29 2009 1:09 PM

    Here is what I meant Faterson.  I played a quick 2 holes on Sheshan Country Club.  The first hole was played in follow cam and the second was played in presentation cam.  I never lost track of the ball.

    I play on the lowest graphics all around

    Hole #1 (Follow Cam)

            

    Hole #2 (Presentation Cam):

           

    I think you are experiencing a bug of some sorts.  I'd report it to their forums.  But either way, TW is definitely not a joke at this point.  Despite some bugs, it's pretty stiff competition.  They are already poised to overtake what is offered here on WGT in terms of content.  Put out some new stuff WGT!  Don't let these guys leave you in the dust in a few weeks when you've had a 2 year head-start!  :(

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