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VEM in WGT explained

• PRStevenson 842 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 9:43 PM

  YankeeJim:

  PRStevenson:

  With all respect is that a question or a statement? If they have please tell me what revelation I've missed?

  4th response to your original post. This is what comes from researching what he meant.

  The 5th post contains a link to the original discovery of the VEM patent and a resulting discussion from 3 1/2 years ago!

  Well YankeeJim you're not entirely wrong but you are wrong.

  The 4th post to my thread was from Mbaggese saying that 'Pizza confirmed the use of VEM last year'. That's not really all that helpful and while it might relate to what you posted it doesn't link me to the thread you posted.

  You might have all the time on your hands to spend endless hours 'researching' through multiple threads to find one useful piece of information but most players just want to find information quickly and efficiently without sifting through all the crap.

  It's precisely the reason why this information should be easily found instead of players having to go through all this. I don't care whether the information came out 3 1/2 years ago or yesterday, if the information is accurate I maintain that it should be revised and put in the FAQ's not spread over various threads in the forums.

• FBudd 208 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 9:53 PM

  PRStevenson:

  FBudd:

  With all respect Stevenson, they have replied?

  With all respect is that a question or a statement? If they have please tell me what revelation I've missed? I didn't read anything new, just the same generic anti-response and a few links to related but equally unanswered threads but it's quite possible I overlooked it.

  It was a statement, the question mark at the end was there to indicate i was unsure as to how he, you and most people simply DO NOT READ these threads properly. 

  Found around page 11-13 of THIS thread

  WGTniv:

  Wow, you guys have made this so amazingly more complicated than it is.  Let me see what I can do to simplify this...

  The game is pretty simple.  Precision controls your accuracy.  Imagine it's like a circle that surrounds the flagstick when you aim at it.  The size of that circle is related to the precision rating.  The higher the rating the smaller the circle.  Your ball can land anywhere in the circle on a dinged shot (left or right, long or short).  It will ALWAYS land in the circle on a ding shot, though sometimes it may land in the center of the circle and sometimes it may land on the very outer edge or anywhere in between those two points.  When it lands on the outer edge this is what you guys have come to know as "the beast".  Was the shot pre-programmed? Does it know you're standing on the 17th hole at Kiawah?  No, it's just unfortunate timing.  The result you see is the logical spread dictated by the precision rating of the club over 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 shots taken on the site.  No matter how big or small the sample it's amazingly consistent because it is after all only a simple mathematical formula.  The shot data is spread out amongst all users, so there will be times when you run into a lot of "edge cases" (aka deviations, aka outside edge of the precision circle) and times where you seemingly can't miss the center (even when you mishit).  This is the ebb and flow of the game and it's always been there.  In the short term you will have "bad" days and "good" days.  In the long term (providing they are using the same clubs) any one player will see the same amount of "edge cases" or "deviations" that the rest of the players do.

  And that's all there is to it!  The other theories can be put to bed.  There's no behind the scenes tweaking, no changing club attributes based on skill and no hidden mechanism that knows when you're on a water hole.  It's just a formula that runs exactly the same for every single shot and it has no idea (nor does it care) where you are on the course.  It doesn't matter if it's the first tee shot on #1 or the winning 10-foot putt in the USGA Virtual Championship.  The formula runs the exact same calculation every single time and you're always at risk for an "edge case".  How far away an "edge case" can take you depends solely on your precision rating for that club.  The higher the precision rating (and conversely the more lofted the iron) the less "edge cases" will take you away from where you aimed. 

  Course releases have ZERO affect on your clubs. When a course is released it's just assets, hole maps, minimaps, HD photos and stuff that has absolutely no affect on your clubs.  Us adding a JPG picture file (or 100,000 of them) does not change the way your approach shot on Kiawah #2 interacts with the green.  Each course has it's own settings and each course comes with it's own set of "surfaces".   If you go into Oakmont expecting your clubs to interact the same way they do on Kiawah then you've already made your first mistake.  Every course has it's own nuances right down to how the ball is affected by elevation and break and you'll have to figure that out with practice.  While adjusting to those nuances you may forget the nuances you learned on the older courses and get stuck in between your adjustments.  That happens to me too.  A new course comes out and suddenly I can't make a putt on Kiawah because I've spent so much time learning how to play the new breaks on Oakmont.  As a result I end up over-playing breaks on everything for a short time while I adjust.

  Hope that clears some of this confusion up.  You fellas certainly come up with some wild ideas, but it's no where near as complicated or convoluted as some of you seem to think it is.  Remember, keep it simple because it really is simple.

• PRStevenson 842 Posts

  Thu, Jun 13 2013 10:17 PM

  Well FBudd you should go back to school then because saying ''With all respect Stevenson, they have replied?'' is NOT a statement.

  Not only that but I did read this post (as have many people) and it doesn't fully answer the questions raised as well as other posts on other threads. If you'd bothered to read my other posts on this thread you would know that.

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Fri, Jun 14 2013 2:28 AM

  But if WGTniv's explanation is all there is to it, this is not VEM at all. It is just the standard range of precision and deviations built into each club. VEM is a system for automatically adjusting these factors to suit the evolving proficiency of each individual player using the club. It raises the question whether VEM is really being used at all.

  I'm not saying WGT has to answer that question, but there is a lot of half-information out there.

• FBudd 208 Posts

  Fri, Jun 14 2013 3:04 AM

  Ok let me explain it as simply as i can for you.

  Each club has a standard range of deviance based on club precision rating. 

  Depending on how well you hit with that club, VEM will deviate your shot more, or less, within the standard range of deviance.

   

• zagraniczniak 1,984 Posts

  Fri, Jun 14 2013 3:19 AM

  FBudd:

  Ok let me explain it as simply as i can for you.

  Each club has a standard range of deviance based on club precision rating. 

  Depending on how well you hit with that club, VEM will deviate your shot more, or less, within the standard range of deviance.

   

  Agreed, but WGTniv addressed only the first part of this equation (standard range) and not the second part (individualized range = VEM).

• thebigeasy707 5,885 Posts

  Fri, Jun 14 2013 3:35 AM

  when my ex GF calls me it used to display her correct name....now it displays VEM.

  my daughter asked me yesterday "dad......when mum calls your mobile or sends a text why does it say VEM ?" LOLOL.

• Crazy3 107 Posts

  Fri, Jun 14 2013 4:47 AM

  What nobody seems to understand is that whether you have a good game, or a poor game is up to WGT and it's VEM,

  If, VEM is on your side, you will shoot a very low score. If, however, your luck of the draw is poor, no matter what you do, you will have an average game at best, or even a poor game.

   

• FBudd 208 Posts

  Fri, Jun 14 2013 4:57 AM

  And you say "Very Elegant Mother" right?

• FBudd 208 Posts

  Fri, Jun 14 2013 4:59 AM

  thebigeasy707:

  when my ex GF calls me it used to display her correct name....now it displays VEM.

  my daughter asked me yesterday "dad......when mum calls your mobile or sends a text why does it say VEM ?" LOLOL.

  And you say "Very Elegant Mother" right?

   

  zagraniczniak:

  FBudd:

  Ok let me explain it as simply as i can for you.

  Each club has a standard range of deviance based on club precision rating. 

  Depending on how well you hit with that club, VEM will deviate your shot more, or less, within the standard range of deviance.

   

  Agreed, but WGTniv addressed only the first part of this equation (standard range) and not the second part (individualized range = VEM).

   

  Is your mother a brick layer? I feel like im talking a brick wall. Individualized range is the range WITHIN the POSSIBLE range of deviation of the club the INDIVIDUAL is using. Calculation by a 'simple' mathematical equation to reflect the users increasing or decreasing skill level.