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is there anyone left that don't quit

Tue, Oct 12 2010 1:13 AM (179 replies)
  • VanHalenLover
    1,422 Posts
    Wed, Oct 6 2010 3:57 PM

    Faterson:

    Stop trolling at long last. There is no "last dissertation/interpretation" and "initial proposal". There is and always has been only ONE proposal. Very sad to see WGT let you abuse these forums for trolling on a daily and hourly basis.

    What you consider trolling and abusing, I see as asking the difficult questions in order address a situation where players have different opinions. Exactly what part of any of these posts do you consider trolling, the fact that I replied to a post of yours? And to think, you are against dictatorial behaviors, lol.

     

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Wed, Oct 6 2010 4:10 PM

    More trolling. Embarrassing!    But typical of this forum's mismanagement that this is tolerated here.

  • isolater
    426 Posts
    Wed, Oct 6 2010 4:16 PM

    Faterson:
    But typical of this forum's mismanagement that this is tolerated here.

     

    if  i could  i'd delete the whole thread  if it will stop the BS

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Wed, Oct 6 2010 4:22 PM

    Dave, you're relatively new here, and unfortunately these forums have always been dominated by abusers and trolls. Meaningful discussion gets destroyed quite on purpose, like you can see above and on previous pages. It's very sad WGT allow this to happen on a daily and hourly basis. 

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Thu, Oct 7 2010 5:42 AM

    isolater:
    if  i could  i'd delete the whole thread  if it will stop the BS

    Notice, if you will, what the BS is-one poster badgering another in a semantics runaround after the question was answered twice, albeit not to the questioner's satisfaction. 

    10-1 odds on this getting quoted and responded to.  :-)

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Thu, Oct 7 2010 7:32 AM

    YankeeJim:
    the question was answered twice

    I'm sure it was answered at least 20 times.

    Notice that this is not really about a question and answering it. A troll's aim is to destroy meaningless discussion by pretending to ask questions, pretending not to understand or register the answers after they are given, etc.

    It's very sad that such destructive behaviour is tolerated in WGT's forums, not only in this thread, but for many months in countless other threads as well.  

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Fri, Oct 8 2010 8:38 AM

    VanHalenLover:

    Here ya go andy, enjoy:

    To be sure I understand your solution:

    It applies to any and all ranked rounds, including single and multiplayer ranked rounds.

    Any solo or multiplayer practice rounds will still have the end/quit option in the game play menu.

    There will also be a change to the game play window such that if you had previously quit a ranked round, (either by computer/connection crash, game freeze, clicking on the red X to close the browser window, and the like.) you would not be able to start any game until you complete the ranked round you quit. 

    This is similar to the existing game procedure for single play tournaments where if you close your browser game window during the round then re-open the game client window,  you are required choose to either continue the tournament round OR forfeit the tournament and withdraw so you can play some other game.  Your proposal would be a bit different in that you only have the choice to continue the ranked round and you cannot choose to play any other game until you complete it.

    Based on the above, it appears to me you are proposing a solution to prevent players from manipulating their scores and saying that it also solves the multi-player game quitting problem.

    I won't deny players manipulate their scores (and as a result manipulate their average) either by cherry picking and reporting only their good scores or by sandbagging their average and reporting some high scores to offset their low rounds.  And I also won't comment here on how well that solution works to prevent average manipulation or even if a solution is needed for cherry picking.  That is a topic for another thread on score manipulation. 

    This thread is about multi-player round quitting.  Here are my comments on how well your solution for score manipulation works to combat the issue under discussion.

    1. Hundreds if not thousands of multi-player rounds are played each day/week in practice mode and your solution completely ignores quitting in practice mode.

    •  Multi-player practice rounds are common because players can enjoy the variety of tees and green speeds not offered by ranked rounds.
    •  People quit, even in practice rounds and especially in random multi-player rounds, for a variety of reasons..Because there are no consequences, because they are getting beat, because they are p.o.'d......etc.


    2.  The way the multi-player game is set up today, if a player has to excuse himself for a personal reason, (dinner's ready or an important phone call for example) he can politely excuse himself via the chat and use the end game/main menu option to gracefully exit.  The player leaving goes to the game play main menu, and the player(s) remaining immediately see the "player disconnected" message and can continue playing. 

    Removing the end game menu option in multi-player ranked rounds, as you propose, means the only option to exit a multi-player round is by clicking on the red X and closing the browser game play window.

    The result is the game play window freezes for the remaining players until the WGT servers realize one of the players is gone and notifies the remaining players.  I've been in games where this has taken minutes to sort out. One player is shown as loading for an interminable amount of time, the chat goes "Mark r u there?" "Do u see mark?" "shows loading" " yeah me too" "I see u on the tee" "I can't hit"  "Mark r u there?" "Guess he's gone" "sez he disconnected now" "Yeah I can hit" ......very very messy.


    This post is getting too long so I'll stop for now.

    Your proposed solution to quitting needs to address the above two issues.

    • Quitting in practice rounds happens and needs to included in any solution
    • The graceful method of exiting ranked mp rounds needs to be retained.

     

  • VanHalenLover
    1,422 Posts
    Fri, Oct 8 2010 9:16 AM

    andy,

    andyson:
    To be sure I understand your solution:

    It applies to any and all ranked rounds, including single and multiplayer ranked rounds.

    Any solo or multiplayer practice rounds will still have the end/quit option in the game play menu.

    yes, exactly my intent. with the exception of the end/quit option as described below:

    I think you read too much into my proposed solution. I have stated numerous times that this has nothing to do with the method that is used to leave the game. I'm NOT proposing to drop the option to leave the game that is built in to the game window. What I am proposing, is to get rid of the quit/end round option when the game RESUMES. Real-life happens, and there NEEDS to be a way to exit the game at times, I agree 100%. Let players leave when they need, and allow the others to keep playing once he/she leaves.In essence, an in-game option allows the player to leave, but not to quit, and also allows the others to keep playing.

    The end/quit round option that I would like to see gone is the option that appears once that player re-starts the game window and is then prompted to end/quit the game, or resume in solo mode. This is where, I believe, the game should force that player to finish the round alone, without an option to quit (and not post the score).

    Understand your points about the practice group play, but I still do not think it should apply here. I would like to see it apply only to ranked rounds simply because quitters are not manipulating there scores in practice rounds. I'm not saying it couldn't be implemented in that scenario, I just don't agree with it. Practice rounds are just that, practice, and that is why they are not ranked and do not affect ones average; and no credits are exchanged for these rounds. I fully understand the usefulness and variety offered by using the practice mode to set specific course conditions, as I have used it often as a Golfseeker member. To me, this is a choice made off-site using a mode that allows these options, and should not affect a WGT-specific programming change.

    And not to beat a dead horse.......but these the functionality is already in place for this, with the exception of removing the option to quit a ranked round and not post the score.

    EDIT: and andy, thanks for taking the time to look at this objectively, I'm happy to continue this dialog in a constructive manner, in the hope that the gang-mentality finally stops.....

    @isolater; Please let us know if the discussion of the methods to addressing the quitters issue is not wanted on this thread, and we can move it elsewhere. Not 100% sure which part of it got you upset earlier.

    VHL

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Fri, Oct 8 2010 9:58 AM

    VanHalenLover:
    The end/quit round option that I would like to see gone is the option that appears once that player re-starts the game window and is then prompted to end/quit the game, or resume in solo mode. This is where, I believe, the game should force that player to finish the round alone, without an option to quit (and not post the score).

    Or add an option, with reputation tracking in place, to voluntarily take a hit there. If you quit the game for any of the reasons pointed out that's fine but, taking that voluntary hit on the rep wouldn't be inaccurate. You quit-you get the hit or finish it.

  • BriRock
    148 Posts
    Fri, Oct 8 2010 10:00 AM

    VHL...this is where i was going to post that all originally...my thoughts are not on how to eliminate quitting, for that, i feel is impossible.  Players will always quit for their averages sake, or perhaps more their pride.  What i want, and what i think this place needs, is a way to identify them.  Thats all.  i don t think that is too much to ask.  The quitting issue will always be there, whether people like it or not, but there has to be something put into action as to allow others to see with whom the issue lies, and to be able to avoid them.

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