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Cheats/Fraud et al

• ConfusionMaster 1,643 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 6:20 PM

  Some rambling thoughts from me, no particular order, just writing as Ithink of them.

  Q.  Cheaters? Who are affected by cheaters?

  A.  Predominantly those affected will be those playing against them for credits and also in the in the tournamounts where you pay to enter for cash prizes. Yes those that play just for fun with no credits involved will also be affected but with no financail loss.

  My opinion, if you play for credits then you assume the risk you do playing any game for money, there will always be people out to hustle and cheat you, take the safeguards you would say if you were to enter in a game of poker with people, try to play with peole you know, if you must play strangers and you suspect cheating going on, don't play them again and inform WGT.

  Q. VEM? IS it good is it bad is it WGT cheating?

  A. If you play golf for real you will know that if never goes as you expect. Hit the same shot 10 times and you wll get 10 different results. You don't have the benefit of exact distances, exact wind speeds. The wind doesn't stay in the same direction or speed during you whole set up and swing. 

  My opinion they should make the wind change direction between different players and even your swing more. The game should not be who is the best at using a calculator but who has the best 'feel' for the game.

  Q. Why are there threads like this in the Announcements & News forum?

  A.  Because it sems people don't know how to use forums.

  My Opinion it would help if the moderators moved these threads to the correct forums, also combined all the threads on cheaters into one. It's getting silly seeing cheaters this and cheaters that threads in multiple forums and in multiple threads. Yes there are cheaters we know about it, now get over it or post in a thread already started about cheaters.

  If you suspect someone of cheating tell WGT, let them deal with it.

   

   

• JFHuber 435 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 6:38 PM

  Some rambling replys

  Q.  Cheaters? Who are affected by cheaters?

  We all are, I play in all forms of play that involve credits and no credits.  I play matches with the assistance of outside entities that provide structure for competitive play with no involvement of credits.  And guess what suspected cheaters also involved in non credit play.  So your response is a bit narrow minded.

  Q. VEM? IS it good is it bad is it WGT cheating?

  I personally have no problem with VEM.  I understand the game as structured will not always give you the anticipated results.  Sometimes you hit a good shot and get less than desired results, while conversely you can hit a less than desirable shot and get excellent results. Works both ways.  Variations in play is part of the game.

  Q. Why are there threads like this in the Announcements & News forum?

  Well, i posted here because if WGT would provide a thoughtful response regarding the stated issue, I would consider that to be News.

  Suspecting someone is cheating and proving someone is cheating are 2 different things.  To have the burden of resolving this issue placed on the players is wrong.  

  Hey, these are my opinions and mine only .

  regards

  jfhuber

  ps  I hope this reads better for you 

• ConfusionMaster 1,643 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 6:58 PM

  Reply to reply ;-)

  Q.  Cheaters? Who are affected by cheaters?

  Not narrow minded. I did preface with predominantly for a reason. Yes those of us that don't play for credits are affected, bt we don't really lose out 'monetarywise'. Worse case sceanario is we get soundly beaten. Might actually be a positive as we'll strive harder to do better.

  Q. Why are there threads like this in the Announcements & News forum?

  Well, i posted here because if WGT would provide a thoughtful response regarding the stated issue, I would consider that to be News.

  But it's not an announcement or News, starting threads in the wrong forum dilutes that forum of it's intended threads and makes the real threads get lost in the trees. (it's not just you there are a load of threads in this forum which are in the wrong place).

  Suspecting someone is cheating and proving someone is cheating are 2 different things.  To have the burden of resolving this issue placed on the players is wrong.  

  But the burden isn't on the players to resolve the issue. WGT can't know if someone is possibly cheating unless they are informed. Same goes for cheating software. If it is brought to their attention they can look into it. That's all they are asking for.

  Not the witch hunts that some people seem to want to start.

  Hey, these are my opinions and mine only .

  As my ones are mine. ;-)

   

  ps  I hope this reads better for you 

  Yes and no. :P

• hobbe95 812 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 7:03 PM

  I have always  thot  VEM was something  made up for players to *** about.

  but today i saw it first hand my tees with a 20mph side from left  my ball played in to wind 3 times  brakin in to wind with ding   just sayin..

• burchell123 362 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 7:13 PM

  confusionmaster i agree there is a feel for the game every shot sort of has a feel but it's a computer game not golf,you cant have a 14 crosswind and think to yourself in 30 seconds it's going to die down to 6 wind can you.you play the shot infront of you and by my calculator calculations i don't have an idea anymore whether my shots good or not,but i used too

• burchell123 362 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 7:31 PM

  And as for hoobs original comment yes WGT has the responsibabilty to worm the cheats out,yes iv'e heard of cheat programs and yes people use them,i choose to belive that the top players on here are all non cheaters,but i also think there are a lot of multi-accounters out there.i have 13 months on the game now and worked my way up,i don't cheat i don't use programs,im old school and still have a piece of cardboard stuck to my screen,it works for me,sorry WGT i don't even use putterpal.gl to all the original players out here,to the one's that cheat ksis my asre

• ConfusionMaster 1,643 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 7:59 PM

  Yes, it is a computer game, but why do people play this compared to other golf computer games.

  Because it's probably one of the most realistic golf games out there.

  So yes I can expect the crosswind to not only change it's speed but also it's direction.

  I admit it's not perfect, but hey nor am I.

   

• angelsgolfing 211 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 8:07 PM

  You gotta be kidding me man. This is a game  kids play it men & women play ,whgo cares about the cheats? Do you not have nothing better to do than to write a whole wall of crap? If you are not playing for credits then let the cheaters play on they sure as hell don,t bother me & my game.They the cheaters you talk about are only underminding there on game, worry about something worth while. Like taking care of the old the needy the homeless lol Ican,t understand anyone worrying about whos cheating on a kids game. If WGT can do something about them great if they can,t who gives a rats behind? Grow up play the game & enjoy like you should . Life is to short to let things you can,t control , CONTROL you..... This is a great pass  time fun meet great people but it is not life or death.  Peace to all the players who know the deal play , enjoy & let the rest fall where it may blessed be you all...............

• cappiest 1,345 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 8:10 PM

  Well said JF.....however i feel this will be addressed the exact same way every cheat thread has been in the past.

  WGT feels no responsibility to tell us anything about cheating and continues to tell us to report cheating when we have little or no chance of proving anything.

  So to all those who want to play for credits in whichever format you choose.......just remember.....you will never know if you are being cheated.....ever!!!!

  There are cheaters and multi-accounters and who knows what else out there.....and WGT can and will do very little to make this go away. 

  Even if they did.....another cheat option would show up and we would be at risk again. This game is less safe and more tainted than it has ever been before.

  As long as the money keeps rolling in the old WGT vault.....it will continue to be same old, same old.

  Very unfortunate....but thats the virtual WGT golf world we live in.....lol.

  Hit em well all....and play with known friends if you can....lessen your risk to the cheat as much as possible.

  Cheers

• Ecka65 245 Posts

  Fri, Mar 29 2013 8:11 PM

  This is not an easy thing for WGT to fix as it is very much a double edged sword.  They could lose out either way.

  "What youon about Ecka?"

  • Well, WGT's business model and game design are big contributors to why people would cheat.

  • They've created a game that requires a huge amount of time and effort to try and master.  So the lazy will cheat.

  • Even if the players masters the game, the game will randomly deviate skillfully played shots so save the time and effort - cheat.  The reward for mastering the game and playing well is VEM.....

  • There are times (server load ect) that the meter can get jerky and stutter.  It puts off the very good player's hand eye co-ordination.  Auto dingers work on time so ignore the visual stutters.

  • EXPENSE!  WGT is probably the most expensive computer game I have ever played.  Use money, use the offers - either way this game sucks money like no other.  That is an auto cheat attraction.

  • The meter is fast for a reason.  WGT offers the player a day or two of respite for $4 - $6.  Or they can slow the game down with a free cheat.

  • WGT provides very limited opportunity to get "free stuff" or "win" credits.  They even take out 20% of 100% player contributed prize pools ensuring that most players lose.  WGT's "free" tournament prize pools are pathetic.  Auto cheat attraction.

  • WGT offers sponsor driven "offers" (survey's ect) for "free credits".  But the credit payout don't go close to reflecting market value of the players input.  Just like the 20% take in premium prize pools, WGT just can't resist putting their hand in the till to make a buck.  Some offers are thinly veiled scams.  Some rarely pay.  WGT prefers the sponsor (even if a bit dubious) over their player.

  • Unlike mainstream games that might offer a few "$5 DLC's" - something many players object to.  WGT feels it is fine to charge upto $30 for a single club.  Due to their average and tier system pushing the player up that club may need to be upgraded 2 or even 3 times.  For many that is ridiculous = cheat.

   

  So you see, it's not really a simple fix for WGT.  If they successfully eliminated cheating they'd likely hurt their bottom line more than just "being aware" and asking the players to "send in proof".  Many of the possible reasons to the question of "why do some players cheat?" draw a direct line to how WGT chooses to run its business.  WGT has never in my 2 years of involvement altered the business model or any of the points i've listed above.  It rarely "throws the crowd a bone" unless you consider a single free coloured ball or a "speed up" boost a bone.

  To maintain both the game AND the revenue stream, WGT would need to simultaneously eliminate cheating and make the game more rewarding and cost sustainable to the players.  The first is difficult.  The latter however is out of the question to the decision makers in WGT that only see the $$$.