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Mon, Jan 29 2024 11:38 AM (54 replies)
  • Mythanatos
    2,212 Posts
    Tue, Jan 23 2024 9:36 AM

    The economic facts about showdowns.

    The payouts aren't anywhere near relatively the same.

    rookie 10cr buy in first place is 400cr.  40x initial cost.

    veteran. 100cr buy in . first place is 2500cr 25x initial cost.

    expert 1000cr buy in. 10k payout for first. 10x initial cost. 


    expert tier doesn't have very many players.  in any other tier. the top 50 make the cut. in expert it's the top half of whoever plays. there is only one bracket. 

    so if only 20 people play it only 10 make the initial cut and only 5 will make it to the final round. so the places 5-10 which would defray the cost of the 1000cr entry wouldn't even be paid. 


    I have no idea what the expert total entries is lately but i bet it's less than 50. 


    Veteran tier is very difficult now. example -15 will probably not even make the top 20 in a final round.  -19 or -20 is typical and i've even shot -21 and didn't come in first. 

    the margin between making credits back or coming out ahead is extremely small in veteran right now. basically it comes down to things like winds on who can be in the running. If someone is able to drive 3-4 par 4s and reach a couple more par 5s than me then they have more chances to make eagles.  If someone doesn't get many high wind crosswinds on par 3s then they have a better chance of going super low. 


    the reduced payout makes expert level not worth playing. this puts the best people in the game in veteran. this pushes the next level of player below those down into rookie.


    unless they find a way to increase the player pool for expert it's just the way the showdowns are going to be.   

    (tip for WGT. increase the expert level room to the same payout rate as veteran and more people will play it.)

  • cipla77
    63 Posts
    Tue, Jan 23 2024 10:32 AM

    With all respect, i agree 100% that it should be changed but where i would like to add is the way they change it. I feel there should be a more in detailed way to determine wich player should play where. I am blessed to be a level 86 Legend, I reached Legend by level 82. My scores fluctuate between 65 and 59 and in showdowns even more. I can sometimes play E through 9 in qualifying and other times -6 through 9. I play the rookie(10cr entry) because i don't have the credits to pay more and expect myself to earn credits back in a harder division. I am grateful for the equipment i have but it's all thanks to many other great people. I struggle to maintain my balls every week, my ball of choice is the Cally33's(250 credits) wich isn't much at all but i have to watch my adds everyday(150 credits) and if I'm lucky I'll win some credits in low entry Ready-Go's, yet again sometimes i win 30 credits and sometimes 14 credits.

    Point is there should be a more detailed way to divide players into Showdown rooms because i understands Master players feel it's unfair if i place better than them in the showdown but then sometimes there's Master players with more credits than me, maybe even better players, when i was Master i could beat Legend players and above? So those master players able to do that should play in the same room as the players his skill level

    Just a thought and my opinion, don't know if I'm wrong for saying this

  • BOZskills
    406 Posts
    Tue, Jan 23 2024 11:49 AM

    @MioKontic, Wasn't Jack playing at the highest level of competition available?     

    First, i couldnt possible know what youre thinking. What im saying is your anology doesnt hold water. Jack was playing at the highest level available to him.

  • MioKontic
    4,622 Posts
    Wed, Jan 24 2024 5:40 AM


    @MioKontic, Wasn't Jack playing at the highest level of competition available?

    If you are saying what I think you are saying, give me 1000 credits and I'll happily go lose it in the expert division.  Otherwise I'll stick to the 10cr game, if and when I play showdowns.

  • dragonmouse
    26 Posts
    Wed, Jan 24 2024 2:04 PM

    The more I watch the answers the more convinced I am that it's pretty simple. You only have a few creds you play the rookie. You have more you can use you get the choice how much to wager on a win. I don't ever see that changing.  Here is a novel thought thought as a solution and pick it apart as you wish  Why not link it to avg.  EXAMPLE ONLY: 80+ avg rookie, 70+ avg vet, 60 avg and below expert.

    Could you sandbag that?  Oh I am sure 100 ways but would you really give up a 60ish avg just to play rookie in a showdown to boot?  I really don't think so. Let your avg decide which group you are eligible to play in. Your avg scores should be the determining factor whether you qualify as a vet or above. 86 avg like my own only allows me to play rookie, no harm no foul as I am playing similar skill for the most part.  Keep prize bracket the same, make all entry fees say 25 creds. 

      I want to play veteran or expert with the greater win value?  Fine get my avg down enough to play that division. If I don't work hard enough I cannot compete with those who have. It just seems to me why would I waste any creds at all if I know there is little to no chance of a good day showing a win, due to all the reasons listed before. Oh well off to play and see what kind of wgt day it will be.

  • MioKontic
    4,622 Posts
    Thu, Jan 25 2024 1:18 AM

    Why not link it to avg.  EXAMPLE ONLY: 80+ avg rookie, 70+ avg vet, 60 avg and below expert.

    One huge flaw in that suggestion - many coin room players don't play ranked games, so their average can remain at 150 forever.

    86 avg like my own

    And why is your average 86.00?  How many ranked games have you played in the last 4 months (that's all your stats show)?  The answer is 1.  And how many of those contribute to your average?  It's none, zero, zilch.  In fact, you have only played 232 ranked round in nearly 14 years!  And I would hazard a guess that most of those were played in your first few years.  You may not be the best player on WGT, but your average certainly shouldn't be 86 either, particularly as you have already moved up from Master to Tour Master playing off the same tees.

    So, maybe your game isn't great, but there will be many other players who also don't play ranked rounds and yet they play a very good game, so you wouldn't be up against players of a similar level at all.  When I used to play the showdowns regularly I would almost always check a players stats, and you'd be amazed at how many times a player with a 70 average would be scoring -10 or better for 18 holes in a showdown.  So much for average being an indicator of a player's ability!  Yes it used to be at one time, but not since coin rooms were introduced.

  • ryry4321
    45 Posts
    Thu, Jan 25 2024 12:11 PM

    If I had to play the expert showdown I wouldn't even enter there's no point I'm not paying a thousand credits to place last, I've gotten first in a veteran but have never placed better than third in the rookie division. The rookie division is way way harder. Currently the guy in first right now during the ski showdown is a level 156 average 51. Shoots  - 9 to -10 every  9 hole rank rounds he plays. It is absurd. But rookie is definitely harder than veteran and expert I entered once and I was in last place at -7 

  • bossbird
    2,208 Posts
    Thu, Jan 25 2024 12:46 PM

    In the current showdown , there is a hack , been playing less than a week , currently sitting 4th on -7 in the elimination round. For me , this is the main issue WGT needs to be looking at , removing players that cannot possibly be legit ! 

  • MioKontic
    4,622 Posts
    Thu, Jan 25 2024 4:00 PM


    In the current showdown , there is a hack , been playing less than a week , currently sitting 4th on -7 in the elimination round. For me , this is the main issue WGT needs to be looking at , removing players that cannot possibly be legit ! 

    You need to tell Nico to take a look at him, he could get kicked out of the tournament.

  • dragonmouse
    26 Posts
    Thu, Jan 25 2024 4:43 PM

    Ok that was exactly why I asked.  As to 24 years, I played back when it was flash a bit, and then took years away because I found that mmorpg's had the ability to chat across the game server with all who were playing. When I retired a couple years ago, I came back and picked up where I left off (all starter gear mind you), and just play for fun. No I don't have many ranked rounds because I prefer to play one or three hole rounds  as if I have to attend to life I lose a few coins, no biggie.  I was in the low 70s as a tour pro, so I see your point, I prefer the ability to play head to head where I can visit with folks.  Maybe explain to me how to change that and play tournaments with others that don't cost credits to enter and we can talk.  Playing against people who I never see, who are just a name on a leaderboard makes 9 or 18 boring. 

    As to rr being the only way to make avg,  you hit the nail on the head. THAT is one more way that wgt makes money. Doesn't matter if you play rr or coin only you still have to spend creds on balls/gear to even attempt tourney's.  Otherwise you if you are honest know you don't stand a chance of even being in the money, other than blind luck or hours practicing that is simply not possible.  I am not complaining just realistic.  Having said that when you look at rookie showdown leaderboard it's kind of a tell that the top 10 currently are at least legend, and most are tl or tc.  There is one tourmaster a min ago down around 6 or 7 but his level of balls is unattainable for me let alone the gear. 

    I DO NOT SPEND A DIME ON VIRTUAL GEAR, I also don't count dots, use math to figure the breaks, worry about hitting the ding everytime etc.  That is why my putting is so terrible, and you know what I don't really care. I play for fun and occasionally meet people who share interests besides golf. Bottom line, golf is a perfectly good waste of a shooting range.  Real life golf balls from the driving range that are no longer usable for that make the perfect 22 long rifle targets at 100+ yards and man do they fly a long way if they don't disintegrate

     Even in real life pro/am tourneys have something called a handicap. Maybe there is the answer, I don't know but the way it is now with my best game ever at around a 69 for 18 the idea of playing against those who have time and money that I don't somehow just doesn't seem very sportsmanlike.  my opinion not even worth a nickle..