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Refund Policy Suggestion

• Vgolfmaster 68 Posts

  Mon, Dec 14 2009 10:59 AM

  If WGT is going to continue to delete and threads that contain information ragarding refunds, can you at least consider starting a new thread specifically for this topic? I understand that you don't want individual decisions or personal information posted here, but it would be nice to have a thread for discussion of the policy (or lack of one) that is permanent, so that others can see the available information and not have to repost the same issues over and over again.

  I'd also suggest that if this is such a sore subject for WGT that the moderators feel the need to delete every thread that addresses the subject, that you look in to how YOU are handling this situation, and stop trying to hide it from your community of users.

  You might start by having a standard operating procedure in place, so there is no guess work on how refund requests are to be handled. This should also include the availablility of a refund for a user that proves that he or she has followed all recommended steps with no resolution to performance issues.

  Your failure to address these issues in the public forums goes a long way towards showing your true intentions, to take money from unsuspecting users, and leave them no options to recover lost monies after findinfg that the Beta version of this software is not yet suitable for public consumption.

• WGTalex 2,087 Posts

  Mon, Dec 14 2009 11:04 AM

  Hi vgolfmaster, we haven't shied away from the subject, as indicated in our previous post about issuing refunds for credits lost due to bugs.

  You may also recall that the thread containing our email correspondence with you was not deleted but locked because public forums are not the appropriate place for requesting refunds and posting such correspondence.

  This thread is welcome, but if you continue to post additional threads on the same topic they will be seen as spamming or flooding and we may need to take action on your account to stop them.

  Thanks for your cooperation.

• Vgolfmaster 68 Posts

  Mon, Dec 14 2009 11:31 AM

  Alex,

   

  41176 and 44075 are the threads I am referring to. Both are now deleted, and neither of them contained any violations of the forum rules.

  The issues that SHOULD be up for discussion is the issues of performance based refunds. I completely understand the need for you to not refund each and every player that says they have performance issues, but it also appears that you have no standard operating procedure in place for those same requests from users that HAVE followed all of the suggestions, and still have issues.

  The only reply I am getting is to keep trying and keep sending information to you, so you can identify the issue. Today, in fact, isthe first that I have been made aware of the 'report a big' feature built in to your software. Do you not think this should be addressed before you decide to refund someone and delet etheir account for having the gall to trouble you with such a request?

  You see, while this may be a sensitive subject, treating your users-community with little to no respect is not going to make this issue go away. A well defined set of rules for refund processing will. I understand the need to avoid a mad rush of refund requests, but WGT needs to put refund rules in place that the user is aware of at time of purchase. It shold not be WGT's decision as to when a performance issue justifys a users desire to a refund. What if someone purchases clubs, and their computer phsically does not meet the minimum requirements? Do you then make them upgrade their system before considering a refund?

• AlaCowboy 1,321 Posts

  Mon, Dec 14 2009 7:42 PM

  Vgolfmaster:

  Alex,

   

  41176 and 44075 are the threads I am referring to. Both are now deleted, and neither of them contained any violations of the forum rules.

  The issues that SHOULD be up for discussion is the issues of performance based refunds. I completely understand the need for you to not refund each and every player that says they have performance issues, but it also appears that you have no standard operating procedure in place for those same requests from users that HAVE followed all of the suggestions, and still have issues.

  The only reply I am getting is to keep trying and keep sending information to you, so you can identify the issue. Today, in fact, isthe first that I have been made aware of the 'report a big' feature built in to your software. Do you not think this should be addressed before you decide to refund someone and delet etheir account for having the gall to trouble you with such a request?

  You see, while this may be a sensitive subject, treating your users-community with little to no respect is not going to make this issue go away. A well defined set of rules for refund processing will. I understand the need to avoid a mad rush of refund requests, but WGT needs to put refund rules in place that the user is aware of at time of purchase. It shold not be WGT's decision as to when a performance issue justifys a users desire to a refund. What if someone purchases clubs, and their computer phsically does not meet the minimum requirements? Do you then make them upgrade their system before considering a refund?

  "You see, while this may be a sensitive subject, treating your users-community with little to no respect is not going to make this issue go away"

  You, sir, are the one treating the users with no respect. You were told this is not the forum for discussing your complaints yet you continue to do so.

  This should be discussed in emails with WGT, not in public where you continue to show your rudeness.

• SLASHX 278 Posts

  Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:07 PM

  AlaCowboy:

   

  "You see, while this may be a sensitive subject, treating your users-community with little to no respect is not going to make this issue go away"

  You, sir, are the one treating the users with no respect. You were told this is not the forum for discussing your complaints yet you continue to do so.

  This should be discussed in emails with WGT, not in public where you continue to show your rudeness.

  In one of the deleted threads he stated that he had tried to correspond through email and had basically been ignored so he felt he had no alternative other than to post here and ask again since his emails to WGT hadn't been answered.

• tibbets 1,043 Posts

  Mon, Dec 14 2009 8:21 PM

  Then again, additional threads wouldn't have been necessary if the original one were not hijacked by users whose opinions were specifically not solicited (through a disclamier asking from replies by WGT staff members only)and summarily locked and deleted.  The users who ignored that disclaimer were the ones being rude, in my opinion.  They had the freedom to exercise discretion through courtesy and chose to ignore that avenue.

  Vgolfmaster has demonstrated that he has indeed gone through the private channels via email, and has not received an adequate resolution to his issue.  The only recourse for one in that position is to continue to address WGT through all channels open to them, and the forums happen to be one of them.

  I feel compelled to come to the aid of a fellow player who asks a legitimate question of WGT, one that I myself have addressed in this thread, which is this:

  If indeed the root of the word Beta means "flawed", why is WGT charging money for such a thing?  Furthermore, why are users so loathe to question such charges?

  Sorry, but I'm decidedly not a kool-aid drinker.  The question hasn't been answered, and so long as it remains open ended and one-sided, it will continue to be asked.

  Oh, and as far as spamming and flooding go, look first to addressing the non-admin users with 10 times as many forum posts as games played.  Therein lie the true spammers and flooders of this forum.

• Vgolfmaster 68 Posts

  Mon, Dec 14 2009 10:10 PM

  tibbets,

  You are absolutely correct, and my motivation for posting this issue to the forums was based on a lack of response from WGT in addressing my issues. I read you post in the thread you linked above, and have similar concerns, although I am NOT going to pos there, as I have no guarantee which threads I post on lately will a life expectancy larger than that of a mosquito in a fly swatter factory.

  It is obvious that something needs to be done in regards to

  1) the refund policy  -and-

  2) the charging of clubs for a Beta test deployment.

  I'm not going to tell WGT how to run their business, but a free system that allows users access to all the equipment for free for a limited time would certainly alleviate the need for addressing #1. I agree hole-heartedly that charging during this Beta test is the wrong approach. The income probably seemed great at first, but I think WGT is just starting to see the true fallout from that decision. If the Beta deployment were put in place for six months, and the bugs were all worked out due to feedback from users, they could be on live with a final release, and have NONE of these issues. They are now stuck trying to answer these requests, which unfortunately detracts from the true nature of the Beta deployment; gathering information and modifying their product for fianl deployment.

  There are numerous ways to handle the 'free' upgrades option. And honestly, where they went wrong, was awarding prizes in the Beta environment. Those cashing in, with the exception of you (que applause here), are going to back WGT to no end, and you see that now on the majority of the threads. Those who just want to play and have a product that works, are on the other end of the scale.

  Had they offered each new set of clubs for free (with the condition that you have tested all previous clubs/balls first) to everyone, and let everyone play for free WITHOUT having a potential for winnings, they could be well past this Beta deployment and well on their way collecting income with a working product.

  As was stated on your thread, WGT is glaringly missing from that discussion, just as they are in the refund discussion. It is easy to write a 'no refund' policy and bury in pages and pages down in the site hierarchy, but if you aren't making consumers aware of it, and of the fact that they are purchasing stuff for use in a Beta environment AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, you are asking for a meltdown. I think this is what they are desperately trying to protect themselves from, but I fear that their decisions to this point  and going sink or swim on a Beta version, have sealed their fate. 

  I for one enjoy the game, and would love to help them improve it. I am also a realist, and know if they don't do something quickly and adapt their business model, the ship is going to go down. If they don't address the refund issue, it becomes a customer service issue. You can roll the dice on which one will be worse.

   

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Tue, Dec 15 2009 2:25 AM

  Vgolfmaster:

  I agree hole-heartedly that charging during this Beta test is the wrong approach.

  Gosh, what obfuscation. There is no charging. You can play the game completely for free. If you decide to upgrade, it's your free choice. If this game were as flawed as you claim it is, this would have been obvious to you while you were still playing with the basic, free-of-charge equipment. Once you decide to put your money into a Beta product, I don't think you have any basis for demanding your money back while referring to the issues you describe. This was already explained by WGTalex in all clarity here. I therefore believe this is yet another redundant thread containing primarily whining and veiled envious attacks on fellow site users; in short, a waste of time for everyone concerned, which is why I'm terminating my post right here.  

• 5419 79 Posts

  Tue, Dec 15 2009 5:24 AM

  Faterson:

  in short, a waste of time for everyone concerned, which is why I'm terminating my post right here.

  nice

• 5419 79 Posts

  Tue, Dec 15 2009 5:38 AM

  Faterson:

  Gosh, what obfuscation. There is no charging. You can play the game completely for free

  In my opinion, free is getting to be more impossible each day. You now have upgrades in the hands of the majority, which means the free players will have to upgrade or forget about posting wins.

  The true story is that every business should have a refund policy. If it is "we do not refund" or "we refund 100%" or "we refund with qualifications". WGT is making a big mistake by refusing to state a policy. If you state your policy in front, then all the VGOLFMASTER  letters would not be necessary. I would urge WGT to post their refund policy in BIG BOLD PRINT, and this would eliminate the need of this post. I blame WGT for the problem, not those who have made purchases without knowledge of refund policy. An educated customer is a long term customer.

  In response to this from some of the spam posters, this is an opinion, which I do have a right to express