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Another way to Putt

Wed, Dec 23 2020 9:01 AM (97 replies)
  • SimonTheBeetle
    2,483 Posts
    Tue, Nov 3 2020 6:24 PM

    Yiannis1970:
    The width of the grid is 207 pixels. The width of the cup is 35. 35 x 7 = 245. The red grid line is at the center of the cup, so at 35 : 2 = 17.5. So we subtract 245 - 17.5 - 17.5 = 210 pixels. 7 cups.

    I just checked it on the new version. The same result. Shouldn't it be counted as six instead of seven in a grid, though?...

  • littleboots
    184 Posts
    Tue, Nov 3 2020 7:30 PM

    I get the green speed / dot speed and I get distance - elevation. What I've never seen mentioned is how divide by 1.25 was derived. Where did that come from?

     

  • Yiannis1970
    2,519 Posts
    Tue, Nov 3 2020 10:23 PM
    No Simon. From the center of the first hole till the center of the last hole, there are 7 holes. It would be 6 holes if you don't calculate the grid line from the center of the hole. If you only look how many cups a grid can hold (without, i repeat, putting the grid line at the center) then is 207 : 35 = 5,91 cups.
  • Yiannis1970
    2,519 Posts
    Tue, Nov 3 2020 10:25 PM
    kavvz:

    Wouldn't the resolution that you run the game at factor in?

    No.
  • SimonTheBeetle
    2,483 Posts
    Tue, Nov 3 2020 10:50 PM

    Yiannis1970:
    No Simon. From the center of the first hole till the center of the last hole, there are 7 holes. It would be 6 holes if you don't calculate the grid line from the center of the hole. If you only look how many cups a grid can hold (without, i repeat, putting the grid line at the center) then is 207 : 35 = 5,91 cups.

    Ah, I see what you mean, Yiannis. It makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

  • Dex000
    104 Posts
    Wed, Nov 4 2020 12:34 AM

    Yiannis1970:

    The width of the grid is 207 pixels. The width of the cup is 35. 

     

    But what about the holes and grids that are a different size? Sometimes the hole tis larger and the grid is smaller. 

  • Yiannis1970
    2,519 Posts
    Wed, Nov 4 2020 4:29 AM

    You are welcome Simon.

    As a general remark for every putting method, i say only this: There is no100% success method out there. Every method that is based on dot calculations have to deal with 3 main issues and 2 complementary ones.

     

    First issue: Which camera to trust when i count the dot speed? The front or the back? As you may know (at least those who actually play the game) in 99,99% of the cases the dot speed is different between the 2 views. You can count 5 seconds on the front camera and 6 seconds on the back. That leads unavoidably to a guess work while putting.

    Second issue: Speed. The speed is the key for every putt. Not every surface is the same, not every ball rolls the same on every course. Let's say as an example the ball is rolling differently on St Andrews/Merion. The general formulas for various green speeds work quite well in most cases but many many times we have to deal with mixed conditions that require different approach. For instance a putt that's downhiller at the start but uphill at the hole. Proper speed is the key for everything.

     

    Third issue: Constant break. I wish all the putts with breaks had constant breaks. Unfortunately this rarely happens, so every calculation has to take in account an average dot speed. This system sometimes works, sometimes it doesn't (cause some breaks are more aggressive than others and affect more the putt. So, you can't be saying, i have 3 grids at 6'', other 3 at 5'', ok let's consider 5.5'' and we are done...)

     

     

    Complementary issues are a) the different green speeds (you need to adjust your formula), b) heavy winds especially on putts above 10 feet.

     

     

    To make long story short, there are too many variables to consider when putting...

  • Yiannis1970
    2,519 Posts
    Wed, Nov 4 2020 9:25 AM
    Dex000:

    Yiannis1970:

    The width of the grid is 207 pixels. The width of the cup is 35. 

     

    But what about the holes and grids that are a different size? Sometimes the hole tis larger and the grid is smaller. 

    Cups and grids are always the same. It's the angle maybe that gives a faulty impression but they are always the same. Note: The grids are square shaped eventhough if they seem rectangular.
  • Dex000
    104 Posts
    Wed, Nov 4 2020 10:47 AM

    Yiannis1970:
    Cups and grids are always the same. It's the angle maybe that gives a faulty impression but they are always the same. Note: The grids are square shaped eventhough if they seem rectangular.

    But, the grids aren't always the same size... at least not in the NV.

    The way I figure breaks in the NV is by measuring the distance with the transparent circle at the bottom of the pointer. That circle is normally the size of the hole, and if you divide that circle in half, there are 12 half-circles from the center of the hole to the edge of the grid. So if I have a putt where I need to move the pointer 44%, that equals 5.3 of those half-circles measuring out from the hole toward the grid line.

    If the angle (like you say) is right, the transparent circle is the same size as the hole and the measurement is precise and there's no problem. But sometimes the hole is about 1/8 larger than the transparent circle and the edge of the grid line is reduced to about 10.5 half-circles from the center of the hole using the transparent half-circle. If I use the size of the hole (one half at a time) to measure, rather than the transparent circle, the edge of the grid should still be 12 of those half-holes from the center of the cup, but instead it's 10 of the larger half-holes, not 12.

    There's also an angle where the hole is smaller than the transparent circle, so that throws things off, too. 

    When the transparent circle is the same size as the hole, and moving the marker 6 half-circles places the grid line in the center of the hole, and 12 half-circles places it at the edge of the grid, the measurement is 100% accurate and putts drop every time (assuming my dot count is right). But I'm struggling to figure out the measurement when the hole/grid (or angle) is different.

    I've tried ignoring the size of the holes and trusting my measurements using the standard half-circles, but that isn't accurate. I've tried measuring using the new size of the hole instead of the circle, but that isn't always accurate. Even going by the % of break isn't as accurate. 

    Any ideas of what else to try?

     

  • Yiannis1970
    2,519 Posts
    Wed, Nov 4 2020 11:50 AM
    I am not quite sure that i understood your method. A video would have helped more. I repeat: The width of the grid is always 2 ft in square shape. As for the cup (larger - smaller)...haven't witnessed yet what you are saying.
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