The Orlando Shootings

• thesupernova 7,331 Posts

  Sat, Jun 18 2016 3:38 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  I saw an article that might be interesting as it's written by an American who now lives in Australia.  The full article is not long and a useful POV, IMO, but I will copy paste the last bit anyway:

  "And when I picked up my daughter and squeezed her and held her to me and kissed her baby-fat cheeks, I was grateful. I was grateful to live here in a country that does more than say gun violence should be stopped. It's done something about it. Thank you, Australia.

  I'm being the devil's advocate here.

  We all can knit pick articles to make a point.

  Here is my find on Australia and it's backed by statistics ,not one man's opinion.

  Can't say I'm impressed by your myopic post.

  AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

  April 13, 2009

  It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer.  In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime.  In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

  Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

  • In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

  Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

  • Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
  • During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
  • At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
  • Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

  While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy.  Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner

  xOXO

  Allie

• ct690911 7,195 Posts

  Sat, Jun 18 2016 5:04 PM

  Good post Allie. I alluded to similar in an earlier post. I am for strict gun regulations simply because it reduces one means for someone to inflict harm..but if someone is determined to inflict harm..there are myriad ways to do it. 

  You can make a massive car bomb from fertilizer (Oklahoma)..do we ban fertilizer?...a large truck plowing into a crowd watching a parade...do we ban large trucks?..in Boston, the terrorists used pressure cooker bombs..do we ban pressure cookers?.

  List goes on. 

  Reasonable gun control laws are a good thing (IMO). There is no legitimate reason for assault weapons to be available to the general public. But people are seriously naive if they believe banning assault weapons will prevent mass killings.

  ct

• hakman123 2,119 Posts

  Sat, Jun 18 2016 7:11 PM

  Allie,

  I think you've missed the point.  Of course there are still guns in Australia, and therefore there will continue to be gun related crimes.

  The point is that by banning Automatic and Semi-automatic weapons, we have practically eliminated the Mass Shootings.

  Prior to gun control law changes in 1996 there were at least 1 per year for the 12 years prior. Then in 20 years since there have been almost none.  I say almost because there were 2 instances of shootings where 3 or more died, 1 was a domestic incident where the family were killed followed by a suicide, and another incident where a man targeted his neighbors and then killed himself.  So neither of them were the same type of incident as a Mass Shooting where a gunman takes on the public.

  There is huge correlation between the Australian gun laws and the drop in Mass Shootings.

  With an Assault rifle - a lone gunman can cause a lot of damage before he can be stopped.  With a manual weapon, there is nowhere near the carnage, and the lone gunman is much easier to stop.

  Nobody is saying that the gun laws reduced gun-related incidents. We are saying that these Mass Shootings were virtually ended.

  In the USA you have at least 4 of these every year. Think about how many crazy or stupid people there are out there in the general public, and I wonder -- if your child was one of those killed at Sandy Hook if you might think differently about allowing every person the right to carry automatic weapons.

   

• hakman123 2,119 Posts

  Sat, Jun 18 2016 7:13 PM

  ct690911:

  But people are seriously naive if they believe banning assault weapons will prevent mass killings.

  Agreed - but freely available automatic weapons make it a lot easier!!

   

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Sat, Jun 18 2016 7:51 PM

  Automatic weapons are not freely available here any more than they are anywhere in the world...

  Mass shooting are political media events and are widely covered, usually to furthur some political agenda, I would guess(GUESS) there are 49 people killed here everyday if not more, an I would hate to venture a guess as to how many shootings, now THAT'S a problem!

• cdefghi 2,872 Posts

  Sun, Jun 19 2016 4:31 AM

  hakman123:

  here is huge correlation between the Australian gun laws and the drop in Mass Shootings.

  With an Assault rifle - a lone gunman can cause a lot of damage before he can be stopped.  With a manual weapon, there is nowhere near the carnage, and the lone gunman is much easier to stop.

  Nobody is saying that the gun laws reduced gun-related incidents. We are saying that these Mass Shootings were virtually ended.

  In the USA you have at least 4 of these every year. Think about how many crazy or stupid people there are out there in the general public, and I wonder -- if your child was one of those killed at Sandy Hook if you might think differently about allowing every person the right to carry automatic weapons.

   

    This^^^^^^  is the most sensible thing that's been stated since this thread started, and the highlighted  part even more meaningful if we expect to pass on more than a chitehole  to our kids and future generations.

  Well stated hakman

   

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Sun, Jun 19 2016 5:24 AM

  thesupernova:

  We all can knit pick articles to make a point.

  Here is my find on Australia and it's backed by statistics ,not one man's opinion.

  Can't say I'm impressed by your myopic post.

  And lobby groups can knit "statistics" into whatever they want to say.

  You could have added:  Source: Howard Nemerov, "Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban," Free Republic, April 9, 2009.

  And for any that don't know who they are.

  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  Free Republic is a moderated Internet forum for activists, and chat site for self-described conservatives, primarily within theUnited States.^[2] It presents articles and comments posted pseudonymously by registered members, known as "Freepers",^[3]using screen names.

  Free Republic has been involved in several organized conservative campaigns including against CBS anchor Dan Rather and against the Dixie Chicks for their antiwar statements

• thesupernova 7,331 Posts

  Sun, Jun 19 2016 5:27 AM

  As I stated from the beginning of the thread,

  I am all for banning automatic and semi-automatic weapons.

  There is one single purpose for them and that is to be a warfare weapon.

  Not for hunting for example.

  Hunting is a sport( a bit barbaric but)

  Not a sport if entails spraying hundreds of bullets into a flock of geese..

  A single automatic weapon in anyone's hands gives that individual the same fire power of hundreds of musket supplied Minutemen ...................

  The era  that was in Americas infant stage of growth,

  When the 2nd amendment provided a blanket of protection ( for example) for a farmer protecting his family and land in an early America

  But as many have said,

  the world has changed drastically since then.

  AND

  the world is a much more complicated and more dangerous place that we live in.

  xXoxo

  Peace 

  Love

  and Smiles 

  TO ALL

  Allison

  
  

• thesupernova 7,331 Posts

  Sun, Jun 19 2016 5:45 AM

  hakman123:

  I think you've missed the point.  Of course there are still guns in Australia, and therefore there will continue to be gun related crimes.

  You missed my point,you need to read my post from beginning to end The main reason I responded  and why I chose that article.

  It covered an entire scope of gun control not singularly  the assault rifle.

  Jim quoted on man's opinion about Australia and I responded.

  in the future please read the entire post instead of glossing over it as my explanation of quoting statistics was a counterpoint of a previous post.

  I have missed no points.

  Also no mention of guns(no gun control what soever there) in the middle east has been mentioned.
  nor the mass genocides in Africa.

  In our violent world the repair of humanity itself also needs to be addressed .

  You want to criticize guns.....

  Criticize humanity.

  People of all color, religion are killing others in incremental numbers.

  We should worry about weapons of mass construction.

  It's no secret anymore to obtain nuclear secrets and  assemble nuclear weapons.,that genie is out of the bottle.

  What scares me more than anything else,including the thermal nuclear bomb is bio-warfare.The most god awful weapon mankind has ever assembled.

  I GET the point more than you could ever know.

  The true enemy of the planet is man himself.

  PERIOD.

  My heart is still broken over Orlando.

  I was very tearful and emotional when I first posted this thread.

  I still tear up when I watch The Video with a very emotional Anderson Cooper listing the fallen and who each victim was.

  Did you watch it??

  If not you watch it and tell me who has miss the point of this thread.

  xxOxO

  Allie

   

   

   

   

   

   

• nanstar 4,914 Posts

  Sun, Jun 19 2016 6:00 AM

  The outlook for gun reform appears bleak.

  Two days before Mateen murdered 49 people and injured 53 others, a crazed fan shot dead The Voice singer Christina Grimmie at a music venue just six kilometres away.

  In the US, which has more guns than people, scenes like this are sadly familiar. At least 33,000 Americans are shot dead every year. More have been killed by domestic gunmen since 1968 than in all the wars fought by America.

  "Gun violence has become a normal part of American life," Andrew Patrick, spokesman of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence,said. "The horrific shooting in Orlando was one of 43 shootings in America that day."

  Gun suppliers said Americans bought 12,000 rifles in the days after the shooting.

  (From a report compiled for News Ltd. by Rosemarie Lentini from Florida).