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Changes to the FAQ - Averages/Tier

• ct690911 7,205 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 8:39 AM

  Thank-you for the explanation. I was a 65.45 master and doing ok against other masters and lower tiers. My record against TMs and legends was (and still is) not very good. Next thing I know, I am a 62.9 Tourmaster. I am not nearly that good and am a bit embarrassed that I am not able to play to that average and tier. I upgraded some equipment to help me adjust, but am still confused how someone with a record against TMs of 22-59 and legends 4-21, qualifies for the upgrade. That said, I'll continue to do my best to improve.

   

  ct690911

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 2:33 PM

  srellim234:

  Not knowing the details is fine, Pizza, but please ensure that it does not penalize players by only considering wins and not losses. A person who is 10-50 against a Legend is not the same skill of a player who is 10-0 yet still has 10 wins. Winning % against each tier should be considered. I know you used the word "consistently" beating but "consistently" shouldn't be just a number in the win column.

   

  These are the facts as it stands now (as posted in another looooong thread in WGT beta section).

  My friend was a 69.03 avg master yesterday, struggling to make par on most courses. He agreed to help me test this. We played 2 scored free MPs, I basically conceded the 1st and just disconnected from the 2nd, before the first shot was taken. His avg dropped from 69.03 to 67.47 after the 1st win and down to 66.23 after the 2nd (my x-ing out). 3 more accidental disconnects (and we all know they happen) would make him a tour master.

  BTW, these were his first and only 2 wins against a higher tier in scored MP. So it's obvious that only wins count so far. Wins drop your avg, losses don't raise it back.

   

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 2:40 PM

  riskplayer:

  This IS a great thing, but should ONLY be used in challenge games and tournaments. NOT in friendly games.

  I have a nasty suspicion that the program (code, etc., don't really know the correct term), as it was written from the beginning, is unable to differentiate scored (free) from challenge mode. I asked this a few times already, but it was neither confirmed or denied. If this is infact the case, I fear that changing the program so it starts doing it could be complicated and time consuming, therefor they won't do it. I'm sure most of the community agrees that only credit games should be included in the new system, but making it happen might be tricky.

• riskplayer 253 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 3:36 PM

  courteneyfish:

  riskplayer:

  This IS a great thing, but should ONLY be used in challenge games and tournaments. NOT in friendly games.

  Then play friendly games in practice mode. 

   

  I'm a legend. It doesn't affect me, but it does affect lower tier players who don't know about the new system yet.

• Ducati916 1,116 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 3:53 PM

  WGTpizza:

  Greetings Golfers!

  There have been a lot of spirited discussions lately concerning the new Anti-Sandbagging feature and its effect on the community. I would like to thank everyone for expressing their opinions and concerns about the feature in a calm and collected manner. Because the feedback you gave was so classy, WGT is able to understand the sentiment of the community much faster and that's a win for everyone :)

   

  I sat down with the Director of Product Management who is in charge of this feature and he helped me understand some key changes recently made.

   

  The exact details of the feature are not public in order to prevent manipulation, but there are several nuances that I have recently learned that I would like to share with you all:

  This feature has changed how players earn their Average/Tier in two ways:

  1) If a player beats another player of a higher tier, in Match Play game mode, their average will go down.

  2) If a player is found to be consistently displaying skill levels of a higher tier, this new feature will increase the rate at which they will advance to the next tier.

  To recap -  If you win against a player of a higher tier in a Match Play game, your average will go down. If you consistently out-perform your current tier in tournaments, you will move up to the next tier.

   This new feature, like all others, will be under heavy monitoring and scrutiny until WGT feels it is accomplishing the goal of deterring sandbagging at a minimal impact to our community. We will be updating the FAQ to reflect these changes in the near future.

   

  Stay classy,

  -WGTpizza

  Noble...but here is the problem Pizza...you are WGT...and it took us to tell you that MP was affecting both tier and average...only to have you deny it affected average. One win against a legend moved me down .35  A second win against the same struggling friend moved me 1.98.  Hardly a "history"...can you confirm if the "history" began when you made the changes?   While I think that fundamentally, no one has any major issues with it....don't you find it a bit sad that as an employee, you didn't know....only to be told...only to deny it...only to then have to ask WGT if it was true...Wouldn't you guys have some kind of briefing regarding enhancements?  While I think we all appreciate your posts and responses...I, for one, feel a bit bad for you that you were left to look like such a prat.

  Stay informed,

• PUHOLINO 1,189 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 4:17 PM

  courteneyfish:

  Then play friendly games in practice mode.

   

  Sure, me with my clubs and skills against a lower tier with his clubs and skills from same tees. Should be fun and encouraging for my master and lower tier buddies. Everybody likes losing constantly, don't they?

• Steve442 710 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 4:51 PM

  PUHOLINO:

  My friend was a 69.03 avg master yesterday, struggling to make par on most courses. He agreed to help me test this. We played 2 scored free MPs, I basically conceded the 1st and just disconnected from the 2nd, before the first shot was taken. His avg dropped from 69.03 to 67.47 after the 1st win and down to 66.23 after the 2nd (my x-ing out). 3 more accidental disconnects (and we all know they happen) would make him a tour master.

  BTW, these were his first and only 2 wins against a higher tier in scored MP. So it's obvious that only wins count so far. Wins drop your avg, losses don't raise it back.

  If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) then the new system is seriously flawed.

• chris5214 1,937 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 4:55 PM

  Steve442:

  PUHOLINO:

  My friend was a 69.03 avg master yesterday, struggling to make par on most courses. He agreed to help me test this. We played 2 scored free MPs, I basically conceded the 1st and just disconnected from the 2nd, before the first shot was taken. His avg dropped from 69.03 to 67.47 after the 1st win and down to 66.23 after the 2nd (my x-ing out). 3 more accidental disconnects (and we all know they happen) would make him a tour master.

  BTW, these were his first and only 2 wins against a higher tier in scored MP. So it's obvious that only wins count so far. Wins drop your avg, losses don't raise it back.

  If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) then the new system is seriously flawed.

  it is true .. and yes, seriously flawed .. ridiculously so 

• Ffudd 2,541 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 4:56 PM

  PUHOLINO:

  riskplayer:

  This IS a great thing, but should ONLY be used in challenge games and tournaments. NOT in friendly games.

   

  I have a nasty suspicion that the program (code, etc., don't really know the correct term), as it was written from the beginning, is unable to differentiate scored (free) from challenge mode. I asked this a few times already, but it was neither confirmed or denied. If this is infact the case, I fear that changing the program so it starts doing it could be complicated and time consuming, therefor they won't do it. I'm sure most of the community agrees that only credit games should be included in the new system, but making it happen might be tricky.

  That makes sense, I was trying to figure out why free MP is included in the criteria but alt shot & blitz don't seem to be. If the program is like your monthly match play points that doesn't differentiate between free and credit MPs they would have to include both.

  Wouldn't a better solution be to use credits won as the criteria with maybe a small adjustment for winning free games ? eg you win 1000c in a tourny / MP / RG and your average drops 1.0 and if you win an MP against someone "better" than you your average drops 0.1

  That would promote the people who use their low tier to earn $ without badly affecting anyone else.

• SamanthaWho 3,403 Posts

  Sat, Oct 27 2012 5:40 PM

  How silly. Explain to me how and why your avg goes down when you are not posting a score.

  Ah because 1% of the members use this as a gambling site. Of course the easiest and most fair way would be to allow purchase of clubs only by tier, but that wont put money in the WGT coffers. Making players who aren't ready to move up, move up, and forcing them to buy new equipment, does.