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#15 BPB should be a par 6!

• 464 Posts

  Thu, Apr 29 2010 8:42 PM

  SweetiePie:

  OaktheToke:

  This hole just blows in 3 different ways

  • the drive is not hit to the easiest of fairway targets
  • the approach is long and severely elevated making it extremely difficult to stop close
  • the green is slipperier than a pharmaceutical lobbyist

  I would never lay up on the 2nd shot unless hitting from the rough or into a 20+ mph  headwind, and in that case I would always lay up, trying to get the ball as close to the end of the fairway as possible.  This will leave you with a mostly full wedge to play about 5 yards long that should drop within a yard or 2 of the cup.

  On the long approach you're shooting for the front left edge rough before the green.  If not on the green, the most common leave is short and in that rough, because unless the hole is back right, no one wants to go long and leave themselves with 1 of the toughest putts this game has to offer.  In that rough, I've had equal success with either a flop shot or a partial full shot, both with the 64W.  Play it pretty far left, almost to the left edge of the green as it will funnel back towards the cup usually within 2 yards.  Play it a little longer than you think because once it hits the green it loses forward momentum.  In my opinion, having enough confidence that you can place this particular shot as close as the 3rd from the lay up position is the key.  Once you feel that way it's hard to justify laying up.  Especially since when I do lay up and don't get that wedge within 1 yard I feel like I just wasted a shot.

  I typically play the 2nd shot 20-25 yards long and usually with varying degrees of backspin.  That's a full shot for me but I've seen someone use a punch shot before.

  If you miss the 2nd shot long and face that dicey downhill putt, play it almost all the way to the right edge of the green and miss the meter right by a lot.  It will end up within a couple yards if you have the speed down right.

  Lastly, it comes down to the par putt.  Sometimes from within a couple feet and sometimes from 8-10 ft.  Don't try to die it in because it always rolls underneath.  You've got to nut up and risk putting it past the cup by a 3-5 feet.  Unless straight uphill I always miss the meter a little bit on the high side because it seems to hold better. 

  So ideally your 3W, hybrid, or 3/4 iron hits in that front left rough which slows it down but still spits it out enough to roll up the ridge a little and funnel back towards the cup.   It's a low percentage play overall but still the best way to attack the hole that I've seen.  

  Yeah, this hole sucks, but I love it in match play as it can be a momentum shifter and tends to determine the outcome of the match more often than not.  Plus there's no danger of a high number in match play.

  Hope this helps or at the very least makes sense. Good luck.

  **Disclaimer**  This advice is mostly for a Master level player since that's the tier smason77 plays within.  If I was a Hack, Amateur, or Pro I would probably look to lay up more often than not.

  Oak...Darling...you must learn the word brevity and act upon it.

   

   

  Despite my admiration for Sweetie Pie and oaks public disdain for me.. I applaud him. I feel it's a good deed he did to offer me his opinion. I appreciate it. Thanks Oak!

• 464 Posts

  Thu, Apr 29 2010 8:45 PM

  One would only be maniacal to deny the opinion of Bollox. Thank you sir!

  SP.. you rock!

  This game is NOT easy. That's why I love it!

• OaktheToke 409 Posts

  Thu, Apr 29 2010 9:15 PM

  BB, I tend to mostly end up short in that rough about a yard or 2 from the green.  I've hit that shot enough times that I feel confident that I can put it almost as close as the wedge from the lay up.  I'd say the dispersion is a yard further at most.  While my birdie percentage is weak, I tend not to miss very short or long for that matter on the 2nd shot.  

  I'd say I might end up long 20% of the time and like you said might make par 50% of those. I make bogey more often than birdie by a longshot, but if I lay up and don't put it closer than I could from that rough I feel like I'm not even giving myself a chance.  Now if I miss the approach badly then sure it gets dicey as I'm probably looking at bogey if not a snowman.

  I did fail to mention that I might not play it in overall high wind conditions, not just a headwind.   I also had been using my Rapture V2 Pro 3W which is very difficult to miss by more than a millimeter.  I recently switched to the G10 with anticipation of further switching to the i15, so maybe I'll feel differently the more I continue the play the hole with the faster metered 3W causing harsher misses on mishits.  I know that I've had more difficulty threading the needle between those 2 bunkers on 11 at Kiawah since the switch.

  Whether if I go for it or lay up it's probably only minor percentage difference anyways in average score.   Let's say an estimated average score of 4.4 compared to 4.5.  Who knows, maybe its greater and I'm blowing smoke up my own ass.  

  I tend not to go for the bunker but that's just me.  From your post I guess your saying that you chose to lay up on the fairway for the 3rd or do you toss it in the bunker on purpose?

   

  SP, brevity is definitely not my strong suit with the written word which has been both a blessing and a curse as I've always had to edit down everything I've constructed.  I guess at least I mostly used proper grammar, paragraphs, and believe I spelled everything correctly...........hopefully. :)  Sorry that it offends you so.

   

  Smason, I don't have disdain for you I was just confused before as to why you wasted our time with those threads yet didn't explain yourself further.  I was willing to listen to any proof you had to offer and give the information a fair shake.   I just felt you were playing a 3-card Monte yet weren't showing the queen.  Maybe you had no facts and were just being a douche bag.  I know I've been a douche at times even if I wouldn't quite take it to those epic proportions.  Either way, I'm also certainly not above helping someone else no matter what the case.  Even if my advice is proven to be paper-mache. :)   You're welcome.

• JAMESBALDINI 266 Posts

  Thu, Apr 29 2010 10:16 PM

  I HAVE THE MOST EXPENSIVE PING DRIVER HIT IT WITH A 7 MPH WIND AT MY BACK THEN HIT MY 3 WOOD RATED AT 205 STILL DIDNT MAKE IT TO THE GREEN I THINK YOU HAVE TO LAY UP ON 2ND SHOT 

  JAMES

• dorkfeatures 712 Posts

  Fri, Apr 30 2010 12:24 AM

  Hi smason77,

  My take on this brute of a hole.

  I tend not to lay up unless I'm in trouble off the tee. So - 2nd shot from the fairway 3W. I try and drop the ball, as others have mentioned, left of the pin in that top rough, between the traps.

  I always FLOP (10 to 15 yrds) from there. The flop takes out all the slope of the green until it lands. If you get it right you can lay it up nice and close. Dont try and aim to far to the left, otherwise the slope of the green will have more effect on the ball after it lands.

  Dont go through the green if you can help it. That putt back is a brute and requires heaps of practice to get close. If you do go there - I try and chip it back. Aim way right and try and get the ball to the top of that drop off. To hard and it will go way to fast down to the hole, to soft and it wont catch the down slope to the pin at all. So its a very precise chip shot, you just have to catch the downslope and then let it slide slowly down to the pin. Its a toughy though.

  Hope that helps. Good luck.

  Cheers Doug

   

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Fri, Apr 30 2010 4:55 AM

  I tend to layup on this hole, depending on how far and where my drive goes.   I play with the standard distance on the clubs (no extra ydg balls for me), so most of the times I wouldn't be able to make it anyways.

  But I don't layup for the sake of laying up.   I'm laying up to specific yardage ranges. 45-50 yards or 70-77 yard ranges are what I'm looking for.   If I don't screw up the accuracy on the swing meter, I can typically put shots from those ranges inside of 5 feet, which is usually an easy par putt on that hole.

   

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Apr 30 2010 5:13 AM

  AvatarLee laid out the best attack shot for this green a while ago. Long iron or wood from the left side of the fairway with full top spin into the left side of the green. Hit properly it will bounce out of the rough onto the green where it begins that nice roll down towards the pin. Missing the shot puts you in the highboy's spot where you have to flop to the green and this is where the bogey shows up as the flop rarely gives you a decent putt for par.

  He used to have a replay of it on his profile. (Apologies if it was Tibetts, AL)

• SweetiePie 4,925 Posts

  Fri, Apr 30 2010 5:19 AM

  OaktheToke:

  Sorry that it offends you so.

  Oak...we are friends...we have played a couple of times together...I enjoy and read all of your posts. You have never offended me.

  The thing about #15 that troubles me the most is that I'm thinking about it on #10. 

• lvietri 3,326 Posts

  Fri, Apr 30 2010 6:44 AM

  Play for Birdie

  Expect Bogey

  Be Very Happy with Par

• b0geybuster 2,574 Posts

  Fri, Apr 30 2010 1:30 PM

  Sometimes for front pin you can over shot the pin to the left and it will roll back down to the pin.  This can be dangerous because if it stays up top you are in deep s**t

   

  cheers