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#15 BPB should be a par 6!

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Wed, Jun 23 2010 10:08 AM (31 replies)
  • smason77
    464 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 3:37 PM

    Anybody have any tips on how to birdie (or even par) this dang hole!!??

  • TheLighterDark
    1,404 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 4:19 PM

    If the wind is behind me, I hit my second shot full power (usually highest iron) hoping for a forgiving hand to bounce me through the rough and on the green. If the wind is in my face I lay up. Pretty much a par hole no matter how you slice it. 

  • SweetiePie
    4,925 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 4:22 PM

    It is my belief, depending on where your score is when you reach it, that birdie thoughts must be removed along with the double bogey. A par or bogey at #15 is best done by a lay-up 2nd shot, in the fairway at the end of the fairway. It leaves a 75 yard 3rd shot that can be learned to control. Nevertheless, the desire to give it a go for birdie seems to generally trump better, more realistic thinking. 

  • smason77
    464 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 4:45 PM

    Good point Sweetie Pie. LOL. Reminds of the movie Tin Cup if you've ever seen it. I like to go for it!

    In my limited experience I either end up way short in the bunker/rough or run it past the hole which is basically a par suicide. I mean trying to putt downhill on this green is astronomical. I hit it 5 yrds on my meter and it goes 30!! lol

  • gobbog
    150 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 6:06 PM

    Don't even think about birdie on 15!  If the pin is on the front of the green, I'll try to land it short left in the rough that leaves me about a 10 to 14 yard pitch shot. I make par about 50% from there. And sometimes if it's really downwind I'll get a bounce onto the green.  If the pin is back-right, I'll aim for the center of the green, but always add about 15 yds to your approach shot. If I miss the fairway then it's always a layup.

  • restorethis
    151 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 7:32 PM

    See the replay on my profile. I try to play that shot every time now.

  • OaktheToke
    409 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 7:34 PM

    This hole just blows in 3 different ways

    • the drive is not hit to the easiest of fairway targets
    • the approach is long and severely elevated making it extremely difficult to stop close
    • the green is slipperier than a pharmaceutical lobbyist

    I would never lay up on the 2nd shot unless hitting from the rough or into a 20+ mph  headwind, and in that case I would always lay up, trying to get the ball as close to the end of the fairway as possible.  This will leave you with a mostly full wedge to play about 5 yards long that should drop within a yard or 2 of the cup.

    On the long approach you're shooting for the front left edge rough before the green.  If not on the green, the most common leave is short and in that rough, because unless the hole is back right, no one wants to go long and leave themselves with 1 of the toughest putts this game has to offer.  In that rough, I've had equal success with either a flop shot or a partial full shot, both with the 64W.  Play it pretty far left, almost to the left edge of the green as it will funnel back towards the cup usually within 2 yards.  Play it a little longer than you think because once it hits the green it loses forward momentum.  In my opinion, having enough confidence that you can place this particular shot as close as the 3rd from the lay up position is the key.  Once you feel that way it's hard to justify laying up.  Especially since when I do lay up and don't get that wedge within 1 yard I feel like I just wasted a shot.

    I typically play the 2nd shot 20-25 yards long and usually with varying degrees of backspin.  That's a full shot for me but I've seen someone use a punch shot before.

    If you miss the 2nd shot long and face that dicey downhill putt, play it almost all the way to the right edge of the green and miss the meter right by a lot.  It will end up within a couple yards if you have the speed down right.

    Lastly, it comes down to the par putt.  Sometimes from within a couple feet and sometimes from 8-10 ft.  Don't try to die it in because it always rolls underneath.  You've got to nut up and risk putting it past the cup by a 3-5 feet.  Unless straight uphill I always miss the meter a little bit on the high side because it seems to hold better. 

    So ideally your 3W, hybrid, or 3/4 iron hits in that front left rough which slows it down but still spits it out enough to roll up the ridge a little and funnel back towards the cup.   It's a low percentage play overall but still the best way to attack the hole that I've seen.  

    Yeah, this hole sucks, but I love it in match play as it can be a momentum shifter and tends to determine the outcome of the match more often than not.  Plus there's no danger of a high number in match play.

    Hope this helps or at the very least makes sense. Good luck.

    **Disclaimer**  This advice is mostly for a Master level player since that's the tier smason77 plays within.  If I was a Hack, Amateur, or Pro I would probably look to lay up more often than not.

  • BolloxInBruges
    1,389 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 8:09 PM

    Gonna disagree w/ you here oak. 

    Even for me, a decent player, I'm almost certain that my average on that hole when going for the green in 2 is higher than when I play it safe.  If I'm purely trying for a close approach shot I would guess I birdie about 10% of the time, and bogey 15% of the time.  If I play it safe (bunker just short) i may birdie 5% of the time, but bogey less than 5% of the time.

    I'm guessing a typical master 2 putts from the top level of the green under 50% of the time.   But I would guess with a little practice they can get up and down from the bunker a vast majority of the time.

    edit- only talking about the front left pin here, back right I'm always going for the pin.

  • SweetiePie
    4,925 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 8:11 PM

    OaktheToke:

    This hole just blows in 3 different ways

    • the drive is not hit to the easiest of fairway targets
    • the approach is long and severely elevated making it extremely difficult to stop close
    • the green is slipperier than a pharmaceutical lobbyist

    I would never lay up on the 2nd shot unless hitting from the rough or into a 20+ mph  headwind, and in that case I would always lay up, trying to get the ball as close to the end of the fairway as possible.  This will leave you with a mostly full wedge to play about 5 yards long that should drop within a yard or 2 of the cup.

    On the long approach you're shooting for the front left edge rough before the green.  If not on the green, the most common leave is short and in that rough, because unless the hole is back right, no one wants to go long and leave themselves with 1 of the toughest putts this game has to offer.  In that rough, I've had equal success with either a flop shot or a partial full shot, both with the 64W.  Play it pretty far left, almost to the left edge of the green as it will funnel back towards the cup usually within 2 yards.  Play it a little longer than you think because once it hits the green it loses forward momentum.  In my opinion, having enough confidence that you can place this particular shot as close as the 3rd from the lay up position is the key.  Once you feel that way it's hard to justify laying up.  Especially since when I do lay up and don't get that wedge within 1 yard I feel like I just wasted a shot.

    I typically play the 2nd shot 20-25 yards long and usually with varying degrees of backspin.  That's a full shot for me but I've seen someone use a punch shot before.

    If you miss the 2nd shot long and face that dicey downhill putt, play it almost all the way to the right edge of the green and miss the meter right by a lot.  It will end up within a couple yards if you have the speed down right.

    Lastly, it comes down to the par putt.  Sometimes from within a couple feet and sometimes from 8-10 ft.  Don't try to die it in because it always rolls underneath.  You've got to nut up and risk putting it past the cup by a 3-5 feet.  Unless straight uphill I always miss the meter a little bit on the high side because it seems to hold better. 

    So ideally your 3W, hybrid, or 3/4 iron hits in that front left rough which slows it down but still spits it out enough to roll up the ridge a little and funnel back towards the cup.   It's a low percentage play overall but still the best way to attack the hole that I've seen.  

    Yeah, this hole sucks, but I love it in match play as it can be a momentum shifter and tends to determine the outcome of the match more often than not.  Plus there's no danger of a high number in match play.

    Hope this helps or at the very least makes sense. Good luck.

    **Disclaimer**  This advice is mostly for a Master level player since that's the tier smason77 plays within.  If I was a Hack, Amateur, or Pro I would probably look to lay up more often than not.

    Oak...Darling...you must learn the word brevity and act upon it.

  • SweetiePie
    4,925 Posts
    Thu, Apr 29 2010 8:24 PM

    BolloxInBruges:
    But I would guess with a little practice they can get up and down from the bunker a vast majority of the time.
    I love that bunker! You can hit it a foot or so...the hard part is hitting that bunker on purpose...LOL

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