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clash protest?

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Sat, Feb 17 2018 9:04 AM

  Paul -

  I can see you like to beat your head against the wall, so maybe genuine dialogue is not something you are interested in.  That's too bad, because on one hand you appear to genuinely care about the game and are passionate about it, but you also seem very quick to ignore details while claiming to be somewhat of the definitive source for this topic.  

  But yet, all you have done is claim to have "documentation you could fill a book with".  Also,  making hundreds of posts doesn't mean your opinion or views are any more right or correct than a person that posts even 1 time.  You may even have some valuable or credible information to share but the manner in which you go about brow beating and thumping your own chest while ignoring the valid observations and views of others diminishes the integrity of your own position even if it has value.  

  It doesn't mean you don't care, it doesn't mean you are not involved...but it suggests the manner in which you go about it has issues and undermines your own value as a credible source because your actions, your tone, comes across as being oblivious to reason and rational discussion.  

  Find me exactly where I said you do not have an "opinion" in fact my posts suggest you do in fact have an "opinion" but it is not a "definitive fact."  We all have views, we all have opinions that some base loosely on facts, observation, data, or whatever we choose as the basis...For some, it may simply be their own personal experience.  It is your exuberance in claiming to have or be the definitive source on the topic that comes across more as arrogance than a statement of fact.

  Nancy,

  It appears you clearly ignored or overlooked this entire paragraph in my posts..."This doesn't mean there are not good players there but they obviously don't invest as much of their time in events that bring out the best players because they can't keep playing ready go's over and over and over until they accumulate the most points."

  Your response supports this position when you stated--"That is because we all play for our CC and not for ourselves in the WGT tournaments to win credits. "

  My point regarding the clashes Nancy, is simply playing more and paying more does not necessarily make you a better club or even the best club on WGT.  You simply have a different agenda and priority and are more than willing to spend an unlimited amount of credits to obtain what is virtually worthless in the grand scheme of things.  That works out well for WGT, but the "illusion" of obtaining something that merely amounts to an egoic pursuit that leads you to believe you have obtained something of value when in fact you have virtually nothing to show for it shows WGT and the technology industry is doing a great job at what is labeled "brain hacking."  What is more revealing to me...is this video that I have linked elsewhere now appears to have been protected or withdrawn to some extent.  I will continue to look for it because it was a very insightful look into the techniques used by the technology industry to lure people into addictive behaviors.

  These "techniques" are the same type of "incentives' casinos use to get you to do something you would not ordinarily do.  They tap into "human emotions" and "ego" to create an illusion of a competition like behavior that creates addictive like tendencies to perpetuate repetitive behaviors that lead you to spend more and pay more without much thought.  Does it "feel" like you won something maybe...but what really have you won that you can take home with you at night, share with your family or friends?  These are not simply my opinions they are how I have observed these in the WGT game and what I learned from information revealed by technology industry.   

  Edit...try searching "brain hacking" on youtube there is a 3 part episode...one of the first examples given is called "streaks" aka CDP to induce daily behavior...I myself felt sucked in by this at the start but realize how it can be "manipulating" my behavior...

  Paul, Nancy...

  let me add, I am not criticizing either one of you or your clubs or your beliefs...I am merely sharing a perspective that is drawing upon insightful information researched by the technology industry to perpetuate certain behaviors in online games whether that is through the phone or desktop computer.  In essence...we too are being gamed...having some understanding of that allows us to keep it in perspective....

  I will also note, there is "value" in the connections and relationships made for individuals who feel isolated but are able to find a "community" that can be supportive for them.  The one caveat is provided that community does not demand them to make commitments that are harmful to themselves or their financial resources.  If so, they obviously are free to choose to leave.  I imagine most people know if they were to join the "G" a certain expectation exists, otherwise they should look elsewhere.  Certain types of people may be drawn to that while others may not...It is why there are hundreds of thousands of clubs out there...

   

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Sat, Feb 17 2018 1:46 PM

  Welcoming news and info.  Sorry if my posts have come across wrong to you as well.  It is the challenge of "forum discussions" that the lines of communication can be blurred or confused.  A statement can be read in a completely different tone than intended, inflection can be introduced in the rereading of the message and we come away with something other than what was intended.  I myself have fallen prey to being drawn in at times, but sometimes I have to remember there are people that specifically try to induce conflict and argumentative dialogue.  

  If you genuinely wish for a dialogue on some topic or this one, feel free to send me a friend requests and we can go from there.  Chatting back in forth here may serve little other purpose.  

  I have been "chatting" with Nancy in another thread anyway on wedges.  I have come away with a different impression there than I have here, which simply goes to show how sometimes context, tone, and our words can be read differently.  There are a lot of good people pursuing this game in different ways we can appreciate each of them and what they have to offer.  

• CEverett12 14,177 Posts

  Sat, Feb 17 2018 2:22 PM

  el3n1:

    You simply have a different agenda and priority and are more than willing to spend an unlimited amount of credits to obtain what is virtually worthless in the grand scheme of things.  That works out well for WGT, but the "illusion" of obtaining something that merely amounts to an egoic pursuit that leads you to believe you have obtained something of value when in fact you have virtually nothing to show for it

  Its true that the G spends a lot of time and money for a golden putter that has no value at all ,  Everyone knows who will win the clashes , Many people play the clash and a lot of people hate them , Its not a lot of fun when you know the outcome ,  WGT does not seem interested in making any changes , As long as people spend their money and buy passes the clash will be here .  

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Sat, Feb 17 2018 4:44 PM

  pdb1:

  They have that sense of comaradery . CC togetherness . Possibly the only chance they get to experience this rare and bonding wonder . Possibly sharing with 50 to 200 players . ( other high participation CC's )

  And the technology industry, WGT marketing department, know what and how to tap into your "intangible" values to get people to spend more money, play the game more than they would otherwise...which is why some people get so drawn into it. 

  It can be addictive, it can meet some "emotive" need, when those same "intangible values" can also be met in other ways within a country club rather than a "structured event designed to get people to spend more credits/money and use or lose more balls (especially in heavy wind scenarios).

  I have never said people do not place some form of "intangible value" but those same things can be met in healthy, less expensive, and within a CC or between an event held with another CC.  

   

• Nancy1959 7,061 Posts

  Sat, Feb 17 2018 6:09 PM

  I think Paul has made some valid points in explaining a little different side to this, El.

  For me, this game is a hobby.  I play it for fun.  Other hobbies I have had during my life have all cost money.  This is just another one.  For me, being part of a close-knit CC team is part of the fun.  And WGT certainly needs ways to make money or there would be no WGT!  So we all spend our money here (some more than others) and many of us do so in different ways.

  So how someone wants to spend their money on here is really up to them.  There are some people, who, like the people in casinos, keep pumping in their coins in the slot machines. Sometimes they win nothing back, sometimes they just get back what they put in for that one pull, and sometimes they get more back than what they put in.  But the vast majority lose more than what they win.  So multiply one person by the millions that gamble and that's why it's such a big industry.  The casinos are the big winners.

  The same can be true with the WGT tournaments that have an entry fee.  Most people that play these win a lot less credits over a long period of time than what they paid out in entry fees (not to mention what they are spending in golf balls, clubs, etc.).  But some people like to see that "accumulated earnings" figure (even though it's not really their earnings as it doesn't list what they paid to play in all of them!).  And nobody ever gets any of their cash back....they just get credits to enter more of them.  If that is what people enjoy on this site, then I say "go for it" and play away!

  For me, I have always liked the social and team aspect of this site.  And while I also enjoyed the challenge of improving my abilities in this game and having some ecstatic experiences when I have one of those "magical" rounds, it's mostly about the online friendships and enjoying teamwork.  That's what I get out of it.  I personally could care less about trying to win credits back by playing in those tournaments, because the money isn't an issue for me anyway.....not to mention that I would surely be like the majority who get a lot less credits back than what they put in over a period of several years.  It kind of feels like gambling to me, and I've never liked gambling because I don't find it to be fun.

  As stupid as it may sound to you that The Georgian pulls together as a team to win the xp total every week and to win the Clash every two weeks, it is fun for us to continue to pull together to dominate these things.  We are about a lot more than that in our CC, but we know that we are going to pull together as a team to do what it takes to continue doing this.  If we needed to put up a million points to win a Clash, we would do that with no problem. That's fun for me (and others there).

  And the golden putter?  No, it is not some kind of magic putter that revolutionizes one's game!  But in our CC, it is not so much getting this putter to improve your game....This putter is more of a badge of honor in what it resembles.  It is not simply awarded to the member with the most cumulative clash points over a long period of time....it is awarded to a member who has shown himself or herself to be an outstanding teammate in many different areas of our CC, with Clash points being one of them.  So when someone is awarded this putter after every Clash, it is a real honor for them....and the other members applaud their individual contributions to our team that got them there!  That's all.  And being part of a close-knit team can be very fun and I highly recommend it!

  There is no "right or wrong" here, whatever type of CC people decide to belong to (or if they don't want to be in a CC at all).  Just like our discussion on the thread about wedges (that took a sideways turn about types of shots around the green), it ultimately becomes a matter of what is the best fit for someone and what works for them best.

  The Georgian works for me.    :)

  Hugs, Nancy