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clash protest?

• TopShelf2010 10,880 Posts

  Sat, Feb 17 2018 6:45 PM

  .

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Sat, Feb 17 2018 9:27 PM

  TopShelf2010:

  Man, it is a good thing these forums are not limited to 140 characters or less.

  Unbelievable

  Don

  No doubt, but even if they were i suspect people would just keep making entry after entry as a workaround.  

   

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Sun, Feb 18 2018 8:04 AM

  I still haven't read or heard a single "intangible aspect" of participating in the clashes that can not be achieved in other ways within a CC or otherwise.  

  I recognize you both (paulie and Nancy) care about "your roles" or "your contributions" but ignoring and or remaining oblivious to the "other side of the equation" doesn't really make sense or come across as making a rational decision.  Consider this...if you could buy a sleeve of golf balls for 300 credits, why would you and what is the purpose of paying 3000 credits for the same sleeve of golf balls?  It is illogical, and it is the "mechanism" adopted by the technology industry and this case WGT to induce the addictive like behavior.  

  Yes that is still a choice.  But, if you recognize something that could or can be viewed as an unhealthy behavior wouldn't you want to share that with them.  Balance in life, balance in the game, and balance and tempo in the golf swing are key.

  Anyone can justify their actions and behavior regarding clashes...but Clashes do not identify the "best clubs" they only identify a club that is willing to pay more to play more and mindlessly play game after game regardless of their score (good or bad) because they only care about volumne and NOT necessarily QUALITY.  

  I am certain you are both genuinely good people and I realize you both mean well, but it seems you also overlook or dismiss how something can also be unhealthy when taken to an extreme.  

  Nancy, I believe you only shared a "limited" view into your beloved club.  And it sounds like that is how it may feel to you, but it doesn't sound like that is the case for everyone based on the "reports" or "statements" made by members who grow weary and tired of the constant bickering over the golden putter and other issues.  People have left your beloved club because of the dynamics in your forum.  Maybe that is something to look at a little closer.  I am not criticizing you or your club, no club is perfect.  I am trying to offer you an honest glimpse based on statements by former members.  If you truly care about your club, then you may consider addressing some of those things because they directly contradict the "portrayal" you offer in your post or everything being happy and good will. 

  No club is perfect,  no person is perfect...we can only try and if we are honest with ourselves recognize we can try to do better.  Find common ground, use all of that energy for something good, something healthy, something that might make a difference.  

  [edit--I will reiterate once again I am not saying you have not made points regarding your own points of view and how you have sought to gain "value" from playing or participating.  It is a larger question of whether this same "intangible values" can be obtained without going to such an "excess" or seemingly "obsessive" manner.  I realize each of those words can carry different meanings and implications but I am simply trying to hold a mirror up and say ... does this look healthy?  It may not appear to others as healthy but you may feel you have found "it works for you" but it is also a stretch to say it works for everyone in your club if some leave as a result of your "methods."]

• 11BC2 555 Posts

  Sun, Feb 18 2018 11:00 AM

  I haven't played Clashes in years and don't plan to in the future..............unless;  have they changed the clash format where you can now play MP Clash with friends?  If not, I see no enticing reason to play them.  I'd rather play stroke, skins, or ALT with friends instead.  If I'm going to play single play format I'll enter some ReadyGo's to win some credits.

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Sun, Feb 18 2018 1:12 PM

  pdb1:

  In time we either grew to accept it . Or not . But your revelations are not new .

  Paul, 

  It is not that I don't believe you or the points you have tried to make.  It is the challenge of trying to have a conversation or dialogue.  Many of these things can be multilayered and touch on different topics.  I appreciate the time both you and Nancy have taken to share your perspectives.  

  What I disagree with is that the information I shared "regarding" the tactics and methodology of the "technology industry" to build in "addictive type of structures" into the games to keep people playing more and more was not common knowledge.  It is NEW information and a new revelation into how the technology industry uses these "base instincts or emotive responses to cause us to play more and spend more..." 

  I agree the general consensus regarding the disapproval or feelings that these are "cash cows" has been around a long time, but "understanding why the clash has been able to thrive" can potentially be explained from info shared in the videos I referenced and linked.  It is mind boggling and for some there are ethical questions involved...I am not trying to delve into that but there could be issues.

  As you and Nancy have pointed out, there can also be some value derived despite the "exploitative" nature of the event and I think the turf wars are another example of this being used.  

  But, after watching the segment on Brain Hacking on 60 minutes, which you can now find on youtube, alarm bells were going off and red flags were coming up and I could see how WGT has also used certain aspects of the game to perpetuate "addictive like behavior."  This is not old news as you suggested, I had not seen it anywhere else.  It is why I shared it and offered it as insightful information.  

  The game can still be enjoyed and played, but if we are not conscious of how it can also "begin to consume us" it can get out of hand, just like gambling for some people while others are able to do so on a moderate or reasonable basis.  

  Again, I thank you for your time in sharing and responding.  I believe caring enough to respond whether we always agree or not shows you have at least "shared your time" with me in offering a response just as others have.  I am doing the same for you, not out of spite or to be argumentative but potentially offer further insight just as you have tried to do yourself.