Forums

A Simple Handicap Formula

• EdJaws 402 Posts

  Sat, Jan 18 2014 3:32 PM

  DaddysKat:

  Don't round to whole numbers until you get to the end.  In all honesty, you should maintain at least 1 decimal place on the player's index, then adjust to a whole number for the tourney.

  Thanks a lot for your input Kat and Cobalt too. Without him posting his handicap process I was lost on how to run a fair tournament and he got me off the ground.
  
  After spending the good part of the morning and afternoon running simulations, I think we got what we need to run this thing.
  
  First off, in discussing the month end challenge tournament with a club member, we had a concern with ties and tie breakers. Until he suggested using decimal places for the handicaps.
  
  Remembering what Kat said about maintaining those decimal places in the calculations, we decided to keep a 2 decimal place handicap number without ever rounding them even for a tournament. What a simple way to solve that dilemma.
  
  Again, after running simulations with calculator in hand most of the day, I decided to use the .96 handicap adjustment. The reason is the -1 adjustment was still giving me a tie when players shoot close to their average. Those extra refined decimal places that the .96 give resolved that even though I was kind of keen on using the -1 adjustment.
  
  We discussed sandbagging too but we also have a pretty tight group of players. As an aside, I was thinking Kat's program could be used to spot potential sandbaggers since you can load all the score histories available on a players profile.
  
  Thanks once again. Everyones been a big help.
  
  Ed

   

  PS.    Kat, I see I lost you as a friend. Was going to PM you but I guess not now. Hope it wasn't something I said or did..

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Sat, Jan 18 2014 4:09 PM

  EDIT:  Deleted - Double Post

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Sat, Jan 18 2014 4:21 PM

  EdJaws:

  PS.    Kat, I see I lost you as a friend. Was going to PM you but I guess not now. Hope it wasn't something I said or did.

  Due to "jerky meter" syndrome, one evening after going through all the processes to tune up my computer and still having a jerky meter, I decided to remove several off my friends list to see if that would help.  After dropping over 100 from the list, the meter fluctuations were still a mess.  All that wasted time thinking it was me.

  I'm slowly adding those "oops" deletions back.  Will you accept "blonde moment" as a valid excuse?  Hope so!

  EdJaws:

  we had a concern with ties and tie breakers

  Without having scorecards, your method of maintaining the decimal places is brilliant.  I'll do the same with my tourney manager ... at least make it an option.

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Sat, Jan 18 2014 4:44 PM

  YankeeJim:

  oneeyedjohn:

  DaddysKat:

   

  FWIW, I've been working with 1i to get my tourney manager spreadsheet to work with your CC.  While it was a challenge, I'm guessing it more-than-likely was a huge waste of my time!  

   

  Kat ♥

  Hmmmm, ......not sure what this means

  1i ®

  Vouching for John's efforts. He's trying to get it so WE can see it and having a problem. I suggested a workaround in the meantime by taking a screenshot and uploading it like a picture but I know he wants to do this right.

  Hey guys.  My comment was not intended as a slam to 1i.  I know he's working really hard to get this off the ground.  I'm trying to assist him as much as possible and would love to know it's working and being used by your CC.  

  1i - I'll continue to help you out if you let me ... you've got a real difficult task ahead of you.  I want nothing more than success for you!  Together we'll get through this, and in the process, we'll make this the best it can be.  Hang in there!

• EdJaws 402 Posts

  Sat, Jan 18 2014 5:02 PM

  DaddysKat:

  EdJaws:

  PS.    Kat, I see I lost you as a friend. Was going to PM you but I guess not now. Hope it wasn't something I said or did.

  Due to "jerky meter" syndrome, one evening after going through all the processes to tune up my computer and still having a jerky meter, I decided to remove several off my friends list to see if that would help.  After dropping over 100 from the list, the meter fluctuations were still a mess.  All that wasted time thinking it was me.

  I'm slowly adding those "oops" deletions back.  Will you accept "blonde moment" as a valid excuse?  Hope so!

  Of course, "blonde moment" works for me. Wait till you get to old age, you won't even remember why you deleted friend.      :-)

• cobaltm 3,961 Posts

  Wed, Jan 22 2014 9:54 AM

  Okay, I just caught up with this thread and feel the need to address it again to flush out some things.  First, Kat, you are awesome for devoting so much effort to this and I would bet that you achieve your goal.  When that happens I will be the 1st (after 1eye) to want a look at it BUT, I am SO computer naive that spreadsheets etc are scary to me. (just ask YJ).

  YJ, thanks for trying to explain what we do at Cosa Nostra

  oneeyedjohn, thank you too for your efforts.

  Now, "The cobaltm handicap method" step by step....

   

  1. We have 4 Player of the Month rounds that are used to determine handicaps, PERIOD!....Until a member has played 5 of these rounds, they have no handicap.
  2. These 4 rounds rotate through the 8 courses every 2 months so hard courses and easy courses are played.
  3. handicaps are adjusted AFTER each Player of the Month round.
  4. After a player plays his/her 5th round they are given a handicap.

   

  Example: 65-69-63-66-61=324   324 by 5 = 64.80....-1 = 63.80..Round up = 64.00 = -4

  I use the -1 instead of the .96 suggested cause I can do the -1 in my head (kiss) and I feel it's close enough for "friends".......I round up or down at .5  .5 and higher, up  .49 and lower, down.  And, I use the 60 as a base zero handicap but as pointed out, with plus and minus handicaps this number is flexible.

  When I post this in the forum it looks like this.

             Player                     strokes/rnds                     Avg                  Handicap

   

  1. cobaltm                      324/5                              64.80                    -4

   

  Notice that I did the -1 in my head..........So, until I play another Player of the Month round, my handicap will be -4 for ANY event in the club using handicaps and yes, once you start an event with a handicap it stays the same through completion.

  When I finish another POTM round Example a 59, I do this 

   

  1. cobaltm                    324/5-59                          64.80                    -4

   

  Then once I have done this for ALL who played, I go back and do the math like this.

   

  1. cobaltm                    383/6                               63.83                    -3

   

  I use ALL POTM rounds played to calculate the handicaps and ONLY POTM rounds.  I have decided after 60+ rounds that we do need to "re-boot" and will be doing that soon.  my current real handicap reads like this

   

  1. cobaltm                 4190/63                              66.51                   -6

  So, for me, the only need for calculator is the 4190 divided by 63.  The rest I can do in my head.

  That's it for that.....Now to address some things posted......

   

  1. There needs to be NO adjustments for tiers.....A Master shooting 59's from the front tee's gets the same handicap as a Tour Legend shooting 59's from the back tee's.  When he hits Tour Master he may suffer awhile but an occasional re-boot (maybe every 50-60 rounds) might help this.
  2. Kat, I may be tired and missing something but I think the -1 helps the high handicapper if my math is right.....Using your Example with -1.....67 -1= 66.00 or -6 handicap.....59 -1= 58.00 or +2 handicap.  This is an 8 shot difference where your .96 system is only a 7 shot.
  3. This does not work for Match Play (don't think any system can imho) and is based on 18 hole rounds over ALL 8 courses so no 1 course Tour Legend will have all his 55's count and none of his 65's.  Want to use it for 9 holes...take half of the whole.
  4. Worried about ties.....have a playoff.  That's what they do in the real world ain't it?  But, taking it to decimal points to decide does work.
  5. My basic problem using USGA guidelines is that without course ratings and slopes, it just won't work.  So best 10 outta 20 in open play will not give accurate skill level because players don't play courses they either don't like, or they score bad on.  The option to pick and choose open rounds to include is SO NOT KISS (keep it simple stupid)  This all leads back to using only designated CC rounds playing ALL courses. 

  I'm sure I missed something but for now let me say this.  My whole system works mainly because I have 50 or less people to do it for and They are ALL the type of people that really just wanna have fun and don't really give a rats a s s if it's perfect or not as long as THEY don't have to do it (lol).  I know this system is good because we have over a year playing it and I really have seen it  My worst players can compete with my best when we use handicaps.  Perfect? Probably not....Good for WGT conditions?...YES

   

   

   

   

   

• Dubfore 4,348 Posts

  Wed, Jan 22 2014 10:33 AM

  Cobalt,

  are the POTM rounds free or credit tournaments?  If they are free, then they are open to cheating.

• cobaltm 3,961 Posts

  Wed, Jan 22 2014 10:54 AM

  Dubfore:

  Cobalt,

  are the POTM rounds free or credit tournaments?  If they are free, then they are open to cheating.

  You got cheaters in your club...kick'em out......And yes, they are free rounds.  We have not done a handicap credit tournament yet.....

   

• DaddysKat 3,554 Posts

  Wed, Jan 22 2014 11:11 AM

  All,

  My spreadsheet will give you several options when calculating handicaps ... that way it can be used by several, differing methods.  The first, and easiest method will be the top 10 of the last 20.  The issues this method has is if a player is playing the same round for the lowest possible score, they will end up with a very low handicap.

  The second method is a top 10 of last 20 with handicapper having the ability to exclude rounds.  This will give you the ability to selectively remove rounds played from the calculation.

  The third method is a selective round method.  This was added to appease Cobalt.  It requires a minimum of 5 rounds, but can have as many rounds as there are in the player's scoring history.

  For all three handicaps, you can have the option to have a handicap multiplier or a flat number reduction.  This should take care of both Dub and Cobalt's needs.

   

  Now that you've brought this up, several clubs use 9 hole games, and the handicap is determined for 18 hole games.  Let's say a player shoots a 32 on a 9 hole game with a 3 handicap.  If you are applying the handicap to the 9 hole game, an odd handicap will lose 1 stroke off their handicap.

  I think the best way to handle this is to keep the handicap rounded to at least 1 decimal place, and here's why:  If one player's calculated handicap is 2.9, and another player's handicap is 3.1 ... both are rounded to 3.  If you apply this rounded handicap to a score of 32, the net will round up to 31.  Now if you don't round until the final net score, you will get the player with the 2.9 handicap with a rounded 31 and the player with the 3.1 handicap with a 30.  Both of these net scores are arguably incorrect.

  To correct this, I think the best option would be to show the net score with the decimal places in tact.  Using the above example, a 32 with a 2.9 handicap would give you a net score of 30.55.  The 32 with a 3.1 handicap would give you a net score of 30.45.  This will also eliminate the possibility of a tie over an 8 game - 9 hole net tourney.

   

• cobaltm 3,961 Posts

  Wed, Jan 22 2014 11:55 AM

  Dubfore, I fibbed earlier.....We have had "Win Sleeves" tournaments with handicaps but I don't worry about sandbaggers.  If any of our members NEED help with equipment they get it.  No need to cheat.......This comes from having a tight group of peoples that enjoy playing together.