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VEM in WGT explained

• drmoose 3,532 Posts

  Tue, Jun 11 2013 8:06 PM

  
  Gerald, 

  I don't think you're missing anything, I think WGT is. People expect to be rewarded for continued participation (rat / cheese). Remove the incentive, the experiment fails. Very unhappy lab rat.

  Doc :(

• Richard4168 4,309 Posts

  Tue, Jun 11 2013 8:50 PM

  I do agree with you Gerald, I was merely asking if they could be the reasons some players experience more VEM than others. I just don't see those wild VEM shots in my rounds like a lot of players post about.

   

   

• geraldlarousse 1,986 Posts

  Tue, Jun 11 2013 9:12 PM

  Richard4168:

  I do agree with you Gerald, I was merely asking if they could be the reasons some players experience more VEM than others. I just don't see those wild VEM shots in my rounds like a lot of players post about.

   

   

  Got something for you to try Richard. Jump in one of these ready gos, and start sniffing the leaders, lol.

  Then after that come back here and tell me what happens, lol. I would stay some of the shots you will get at the most strange times will leave you scratching your head, lol.

  I will also add it will be so obvious you can do nothing but laugh. Then after laughing try and make a birdie, because the leader will have,,,,,lmao!

  Lil test, lol. Be waiting back for repy........:)

• thebigeasy707 5,885 Posts

  Wed, Jun 12 2013 3:53 AM

  geraldlarousse:

  Good post TBE. So you can agree with me that we are not getting a level playing field?

  I honestly feel that when I enter a comp I've got as good a chance as anyone else in the field and if I'm playing at my best, then I'll give the top players a run for their money.

  Since reaching legend, I've never really taken on a MP game against an opponent I've considered was going to be an easy victory. I just don't think that way. I'd rather play the best and die trying because if nothing else, you tend to improve your own game by playing against the best there is. Play against them often and you will improve and will learn to beat them as well as having huge fun at the same time.

  I remember playing Sam for 400crds on the front 9 of RSG when it was just out and went 2 up quickly and thought YES!!!....only to come up against his killer instinct and he came screaming back to win the game 2up....so that was my 1st lesson learned. Never take the foot off the gas against a top player...EVER!...or you'll get punished all of the time....I say this because he's creamed me a couple of times...but I still managed to take some knowledge from the games.

  Priestess....she will give you a tough game all the time too when it's a serious match, mpc or skins for creds. Leave the door open for 1 shot and she'll slam it in your face. Simo.....I call him the smiling assassin because he'll laugh and joke while saying he finds Merion tough ...as he's hitting balls in to within 3ft of the cup 5 holes on the trot like the other day but I managed to get extremely lucky. Overall though...Simo will get the result.

  Genorb just pure hates losing so much it's unreal.  He's one of the toughest guys to play on here in any format lol and if you're not playing your A+ game, then it's over and done pretty quickly. I think if he played tiddlywinks he'd want to be world champion.

  Dansamcam....well.....that guy's just a robot lol...but he's also one of the kindest guys you'll ever meet in this game. The only chance of catching Danno...is if you truly catch him just as he's came on without warming up BUT beware.....just because he's only showed online doesn't necesserily mean he's not been practicing in hide mode lolol.

  There's a ton of other great players here on WGT I'd love to play and will when our paths cross and I will always relish the challenge. Cherry picking players for easy victories has never been my thing. There's more than credits. I get my rush from taking on the best shot hitters...the best putters and the most consistent players etc....and trying to take something / learn something from those games.

  Level playing fields....I think that once you reach a certain level...you should be able to adapt to whatever the game chucks at you in terms of VEM & random winds, regardless of whether WGT gave everyone no VEM and identical winds 100% of the time.

  There's been a few "no wind" comps...I never looked at the results though.

  I do feel that if anyone heads into a game questioning the "level playing field" thing....then the doubt is already in that player's game and thus an uphill struggle to hit a good round ensues. :)

  Remember....Confidence Is King!

  Be as confident with a 40ft putt as you are with a 2ft putt.

• geraldlarousse 1,986 Posts

  Wed, Jun 12 2013 4:10 AM

  thebigeasy707:

  geraldlarousse:

  Good post TBE. So you can agree with me that we are not getting a level playing field?

  I honestly feel that when I enter a comp I've got as good a chance as anyone else in the field and if I'm playing at my best, then I'll give the top players a run for their money.

  Since reaching legend, I've never really taken on a MP game against an opponent I've considered was going to be an easy victory. I just don't think that way. I'd rather play the best and die trying because if nothing else, you tend to improve your own game by playing against the best there is. Play against them often and you will improve and will learn to beat them as well as having huge fun at the same time.

  I remember playing Sam for 400crds on the front 9 of RSG when it was just out and went 2 up quickly and though YES!!!....only to come up against his fighting instinct and he came screaming back to win the game 2up....so that was my 1st lesson learned. Never take the foot off the gas against a top player...EVER!

  Priestess....she will give you a tough game all the time too. Leave the door open for 1 shot and she'll slam it in your face. Simo.....I call him the smiling assassin lol. Genorb just pure hates losing so much, he's one of the toughest MP guys to play on here and if you're not playing your A+ game, then it's over and done pretty quickly.

  Dansamcam....well.....that guy's just a robot lol. The only chance of catching Danno...is if you truly catch him just as he's came on without warming up BUT beware.....just because he's only showed online doesn't necesserily mean he's not been practicing in hide mode lolol.

  There's a ton of other great players here on WGT I'd love to play and will when our paths cross and I will always relish the challenge. Cherry picking players for easy victories has never been my thing. There's more than credits. I get my rush from taking on the best shot hitters...the best putters and the most consistent players etc....and trying to take something / learn something from those games.

  Level playing fields....I think that once you reach a certain level...you should be able to adapt to whatever the game chucks at you in terms of VEM & random winds.

  There's been a few "no wind" comps...I never looked at the results though.

  Yes mate understand all that you said. But i think you are missing the point again,lol.

  I have beat some of these players in ready goes, what does that mean? Nothing that is what that means. I've also beaten some of the best in free tourneys, what does that mean,,,nothing again.

  And when you get Vemmed to death you can not compete with the best here. Bottom line is you get clean round or not, period. And lately those are few and far between.

  Once you reach a certain level...you should be able to adapt  to whatever the game chucks at you in terms of Vem & random winds<<<<<<<that is what you said correct??? Please explain that to Notonthis please, lol. I been seeing a lot of great players shooting so stupid scores, and the list is many, the best here. So i guess they can't adapt, fair to say?

  I'll even go one more. Every player that qualifies for the Virtual Open will have a chance to win, if left alone to play their game. Seems i am seeing a lot of WD's and stupid scores by some of the best in the qualifier. Fair to say guess they could not hang with the condition given to them??lol. Sorry mate set yourself up for that one. ;)

  I have no idea what you are talking about TBE and i doubt you know either, lol, but i can assure you i know how to play this game. Feel free to ask around with players that have played with me. I do know when i am being hosed, believe me. Seems like your flip flopping to me mate, don't know what direction to go with. I will not be influenced, i call it like i see it, straight up.

  Anyone here think we have a level playing field is in denial. I have read that crap, i have been there done that and got the t-shirt.

  Sorry mate not flying here.

  Edit: Lol, gotcha before you edited,, hehe. I would also like to say i am having a great time winning credits at the moment, because some of the best seem to be having problems,hehe, nice not having to buy balls.

• thebigeasy707 5,885 Posts

  Wed, Jun 12 2013 8:45 AM

  to be honest...i just take the game as it is nowadays and it is what it is.

  even if i won a trip to the US Open or some random winner comp with a trip across the pond, i'd turn it down or give it away because i don't have the time and hate flights of over 4 hours :)

  but it stands to reason that it's not just me, chris, you and the other common posters in these VEM posts threads who always get vemmed.

  as for a level playing field my theory would be this.

  example.......

  Full 18 holes round all courses.

  Conditions...no wind.....low / mod / high of whatever folks decide....BUT each player will get identical wind direction & won't be VEM'd or players get equally VEM'd on identical shot(s).

  My opinion is that even with a truly level playing field, the elite players will win these tourneys because they are the better players....they make less mistakes over 18 holes, hit better approaches more consistently and are insanely good putters.

  Sure, they might hit an off day and leave some scraps for others with a chance of finishing in the top 3 of a tourney but even on their off days, their game would still be considered awesome by many.

  I just think it's better to accept things as they are instead of fighting or complaining like mad over something that to be honest, threatens to tear this great game and community apart at times & I think both are too much to lose...therefore I play and post with a more open mind these days and the relaxation helps.

  WGT have been introducing no wind tourneys but I'm not a fan of them. I can't think of a real life round of golf in the last 10 years I've played when there was no wind. In Scotland there is always some sort of wind. :)

  I used to hate heavy winds...now I like them a lot and have no real issue whether I'm in a tourney and get howling headwinds while the next guy gets decent tailwinds.

  Take the Open round RSG in heavy winds a few years back. I got a more favourable wind set and I chatted to a few elite players after it and a couple of them got an insane wind set. I'll mention no names cause it's against the rules....but two of who I consider to be amongst the best on WGT got winds that made reaching greens in 2 completely out of reach on at least 6 or 7 holes. Thinking back on those post final chats, these guys never even moaned about the winds whatsoever.  They just seemed to take it on the chin.

  One of those players got such a tough wind set he only took 18 putts over the 18 holes but finished with a round of 69 or 70. That's how tough a wind set he got...and never let out a peep about it....whereas as if he'd got my wind set I know his game and I know he'd have shot between 58-60 which would have put him in the mix for sure...whereas I only managed a 63 I think.

• MBaggese 15,367 Posts

  Wed, Jun 12 2013 9:55 AM

  thebigeasy707:

  to be honest...i just take the game as it is nowadays and it is what it is.

   

  For the most part, I do as well.

  I've been on the SA 18 RG the past month (200cr now 300cr) in moderate wins, which can play tough...after maybe 30+ rounds there, I've gotten #9 and 10 somewhat DW 2 or 3 times (between the two)...the par 5's either head or side winds...side I don't mind, but very few tail winds.

  Today in the 300cr RG...I no matter what I did on the front 9...I couldn't play out enough to combat side winds, all my putts wound up 12-15 foot DH sliders...finished the front at -5...told myself "eff it, gonna tear up the back nine"

  Birdied all the holes except the par 5 which I eagled to finish with a 57...now had I played it out thinking I was just going to be hosed on the back nine...I'd have probably put up a 62-64.

  PS, only good wind I got on the back nine was a helping R-L crosswind for approach that I played well for the putt.

   

  I dunno, I think attitude has a lot to do with overcoming play...I see Brandon (notonthis) is scoring well again now after a week or so of (to him) substandard play.

• Richard4168 4,309 Posts

  Wed, Jun 12 2013 10:04 AM

  Ok Gerald, I played the 50 credit front 9 Ready-Go on Bethpage and scored a 30. I should of saved the card, but you will see my score when everyone finishes playing.

  I didn't see any wild shots fly way off the target line. But, I will say something was amiss after birdieing the first four holes. The first three holes played great for birdie. Nothing strange.

  My 64 wedge seemed to fly long on hole 4. With 48 to go, I hit less than 100% and the ball flew 3 yards past the pin. Thought that was strange for an uphill approach. Made the bird.

  On hole 5, I had 185 to go. Played almost full backspin, hit with 195 almost 100%, but came up short in the bunker. Thought that was strange. Parred from 2 feet. /scratches head

  I hit the wedge approach with too much power on hole 6. But the ball did fly off the target line with more exaggeration after missing ding by a pixel or two. missed a 13 foot birdie putt.

  I had 228 to go on hole 7 and just simply hit with too much power and the ball rolled on line just passed the pin. Missed a 13 footer for birdie.

  Made a 18 foot birdie putt on hole 7, but again I missed ding by very little and the ball took off 5 to 6 yards off line to the right. That was strange indeed. But the birdie putt rolled true.

  Now, hole 9 is where it gets dicey and was fully VEM. Had 163 to go, hit 95% power off-ding with a 180 club, and the ball flies 6 yards off the target line landing pin high. Missed the long birdie putt. What's strange is, the wind was blowing 4 right to left and I off-dinged barely to the right of ding and the ball took off right. /scratched head

  This round should have been a 28 at least, maybe a 27 if I could of made more putts. No sure if I'll get my credits back or not.

  The better players are capable of playing this game mistake free for the most part, IMO. This is my whole problem. I start missing ding, or my off-ding spots which only leave me longer putts. When we make meter mistakes, it seems VEM kicks in to make these mistakes even more exaggerated when we're on a birdie streak. Just a thought.

  VEM seems relevant, it just has a mind of it's own and will strike when a player least expects it. What can we do about it?

   

• Steven1163 2,912 Posts

  Wed, Jun 12 2013 10:14 AM

  You know I think I had one of those  "What the...." moments early this morning....on that 247yd par 3...or maybe its the club....I got that new R11 wood  L85....I had a 10 mph R to L  straight wind....I didnt adjust for wind....just hit the ding dead on with the pin in the lower R side of the green....it ended up with my partner having almost an 85 ft putt.....which mean that 10 mph wind blew my ball off course by over 28 yds....was it me not knowing the club...or will a 10 mph wind on Oakmont morepwerful than a 20mph wind on St. Andy???

• Woodoworkery 3,498 Posts

  Wed, Jun 12 2013 10:25 AM

  I don't know ,I been in a slump for a long long time, it's hard to keep a positive note when you play Champ greens and they are really tournament speed , sometimes even very fast greens. Wind that says one thing but is really something else. Shots coming up 10 yards are more short, shots going 8 yards long. Seems like the game just does what the game wants to do and that's the truth . I get maybe one good day and then a week are more of WTF.

  I have formulas, for putting speed,and wind up the ying yang and when they all don't work what does that tell ya, I have done it all from going to the hole on a putt and moving the marker to the back of the hole and seeing the distance change, adding the extra 2 feet and still the ball stops .2 yes that's .2 not 2 from the hole and stops. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.