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Pro Tier Criteria for WGT Evaluation

• marleychoi 4 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 11:28 AM

  Well said Tibbets. I wish i could play a round with you. Although i am extremely jealous of your success, lol, I agree with your statements.

   

• gitthe 66 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 11:34 AM

  One flaw of the current system is there is very little incentive to move into a higher tier.  The difference in prizes is nominal or nonexistent (e.g., Play with Parker tourney).  Where is the motivation for people not to sandbag?  The prizes should be substantially higher for the higher tiers to discourage sandbagging.  Then, if people choose to sandbag their average, then they settle for lower tier prizes.

• MElli22631 32 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 11:52 AM

  I won the Hack Play with Parker as I had basically just started playing in the previous month and as time went on I continued to improve. I won by shooting my best round yet and was pretty lucky. I was moved up to Am status because overall I had improved enough - not because I won. I like the two criteria process of moving up. Using both scoring average and % of top 10's. Would have to set up some standard like over 50% top 10 in min 20 tournaments. The scoring average is too easy to sandbag an avoid moving up. I also agree that I probably should not have won the same prize as the Am tier. The prizes should become smaller as you move down the tiers. Gives incentive to move up to win better stuff.

  I don't have an issue with a few people winning - as no matter how you slice up the tiers there will always be dominant people. People seem to hate the idea that they just have to improve to win - this is a game for $ and the best should win.

• jbowles824 67 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 12:18 PM

  tibbets has said what is the reality of tiers and I agree with him. And I don't have any horse in this race.

  In my opinion there are folks here in this game, just as in real life, that cannot stand the fact that there are some players that are better than others. They will try anything to stop them. Complain about the couse, wind, clubs, putting the list goes on and on.

  Can we not just agree that some folks are better than others. If you have a problem with it, practice and get better than they are.

  If you are not willing to do that, slink back to #9 and stand at the tee so you can operate the ball washer for those who are playing and practicing. Most folks are better than I am, but I am happy for their success and I for one am not willing to try to bring them down just because of being jealous.

  Just my thoughts

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 1:30 PM

  I just remembered that not every one can enter tournaments with prizes, so earnings should not be a criteria in the moving up in ranks.

  Top 10 in tournaments is also problematic due to that.

  So it looks like we're stuck with avg or some other formula for moving players up to the pro tier.

  I do like Jarid's idea where making it into the Pro tier isn't the end all.   Players in that tier should need to continue to score well (and be relatively active) in order to stay in that tier.

• nivlac 2,188 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 1:50 PM

  Well, since this has turned into a decent discussion thread I'll throw out my qualifying idea.  Keep in mind the numbers I've used are arbitrary and would probably need to be adjusted based on conditions, course played etc.

  I was thinking something like a free monthly, bi-monthly or quarterly Q-School tournament (no prizes or credits, just a qualifier).  Set an entry requirement of a 66 average and set the Pro Tier "pass score" at let's also say 66 for argument's sake.  Have the tournament and let everyone shoot their 18 holes rounds.  Then the top 50% (plus ties) of the group who shoots 66 or lower earns their "Tour Card" and advances into the Pro Tier for that time period.  Once your "Tour Card" expires, you'd be required to re-qualify in another Q-School tournament down the road.  If you cannot re-qualify, you are dropped back into the next lowest tier. 

  If you win any Pro Tier tournaments (whether it's 1 or 15 of 'em) then you receive an exemption from the very next qualifier.  In essence, you're not required to re-qualify and your  "Tour Card" lives on for another 3 months or whatever the time period is and you keep playing in the Pro Tier.  This contingency would ensure that the folks that belong in the Pro Tier are certain to remain there.

  In order for this to work, as others have said, Pro Tier prizes need to staggeringly more valuable than the other two tiers are right now.  The incentive to advance must be present for everyone.

  You could even take it a step further and introduce scoring averages for every course instead of one scoring average to rule all.  This would force players to carry the required scoring average on the actual qualifying course in order to enter the Q-School tournament.  It would prevent folks from sandbagging on the easier courses to lower the overall average and prevent them from back-dooring into the qualifier.

  This is a very rough idea still and obviously needs work to tighten up the details, but I think that it would introduce a very realistic dynamic into the game.  Players on the PGA Tour must earn their cards and the rights to play with the big boys, so should we.

• tibbets 1,043 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 3:24 PM

  The Q-School qualifier idea is a good one, with exemptions etc.

  Lowering the prize values on lower tiers is a good one as well.

  Staying active in the tier is also important, whether it be a minimum # of ranked rounds per month or something similar.

  Thanks to those who understand that this is a play-to-win game, and while I do understand the concerns and frustrations of those who try and don't win anything, that's just part of essence of competitve sports, and nothing has to be "done" about it.  If you really care about your fellow players, and want them to have a chance at winning something, I suggest turning your attention to the current Hack tier, which week after week is filled with people who are clearly amateurs with mulitple accounts gobbling up all the Hack prizes.  There's your inequity, your cheating, your sandbagging...everything that is ugly about the game lives there, not with me.

• Caven 63 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 4:03 PM

  Interesting indeed.  Though we had a similar discussion a month or so ago, it is good to see similar thoughts come to the surface again.

  However WGT sets up the tiers, and I hope they use some of the input discussed here, it is still the best game on the web, and myself, I will try to adapt to any situation WGT creates and continue to play for merely the serenity and escape this game provides me.

  And as far as Tibbets, those of you who continually complain would probably be far less interested or accomplished in this game if you didn't have a Tibbets to shoot at as it would all be mundane if there were not a Tibbets, or Avatar Lee, or Nivlac and so on.

  I would love to see a discussion to what Tibbets brought up that is indeed a plague on this site, that is multiple accounts.  Of course if WGT went back to giving t-shirts and ball caps in the lower tiers that would cure some of that and not impede registration of new players. 

  As a senior citizen, if I can play this game half a**, some of you punks with multiple accounts can also.

   

   

• WGTalex 2,087 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 4:07 PM

  Thanks for all the posts so far. We are evaluating our tier system, and we are reading your comments...

• marioh 1,055 Posts

  Wed, May 6 2009 4:18 PM

  I'm sure WGT already has their own criteria set for Pro promotions (as on now), but it'd be nice if we got some feedback on some of the very good ideas presented in this thread.

  I like Nivlac's system and the idea of a minimum rounds played per month that affects both eligibility for Pro tier and scoring average.   People who play in the Pro tier should be both active and good/consistent.