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Country Club League - Winter 2012

• Bootsnbra 2,322 Posts

  Tue, Nov 29 2011 1:12 PM

  slor:

  Bootsnbra:

  In the last competition we had quite a few teams that could not get their players to play. Without allowing forfeits the team that is trying to get the other side to play is now penalized and that just isn't fair. This can easily knock a team out of the competition while another club may have more teams placing. I think the rule should be as follows : One Warning written in the forum and their personal profile wall will be given to the team captain  to get their player to play or substitute an eligible player with 48 hours of that notice or an automatic forfeit will be used and the team attempting to play will be credited a win. 

  Bootsie, it sounds like a nice idea, but the (wo)manpower available to give these warnings, keep track of who has them, and hear all of the appeals / gnashing of teeth over forfeits isn't there for a competition of this size - the free division will probably be have around 80 teams!

  This is also an online competition, where player availability is subject to personal constraints that organisers don't know about (e.g. playing at work). 

  We have added a couple of rounds to have a better, albeit limited opportunity for teams that get a bad draw in the first couple of rounds to fight back to the top. 

  I'm happy to have a discussion in the forum, but right now forfeits are not manageable!

  As for manpower there is none needed. A document can be created that time stamps everything in google docs and the link sent to Team Captains only. Make it the team captains responsibility to give notice there and to check it daily. It's time stamped and no fuss no muss but if one team fails to show for the other team ( while I understand we all have lives) how is that fair to the team that has showed every match and receives no score for it and why make it so one captain has to beg another captain to step up and manage their team. That's when hurtful words and situations arise so why not just take those things out of the equation totally and make it just point blank if you don't take appropriate action the team that doesn't show suffers.The penalty will be known by all so if you go there it's on that club and no one else. Then there will be no need for bickering or begging the other teams. 

  Once you have a list of all teams I would be more then happy to create the areas for team captains to use but penalizing both teams for one just does not seem fair at all -

   

• BaaBaaBoom 578 Posts

  Tue, Nov 29 2011 1:45 PM

   

  as usual a GREAT job BOOTSIE...your foresight...and planning is tremendously excellent ...WGT need an organiser like you....who have the class  to bring all competition to a  higher level....welldone

  BBB

• JGtassiedevil 775 Posts

  Wed, Nov 30 2011 4:52 AM

  The Normans Webb Collective will continue our avid support for the league. At this stage my members are only interested in the free division. It is likely we will again field 3 teams and are looking forward to it. Our line ups will be announced and submitted by early January.

• slor 902 Posts

  Wed, Nov 30 2011 8:18 AM

   

  Bootsnbra:

   

  As for manpower there is none needed. A document can be created that time stamps everything in google docs and the link sent to Team Captains only. Make it the team captains responsibility to give notice there and to check it daily. It's time stamped and no fuss no muss but if one team fails to show for the other team ( while I understand we all have lives) how is that fair to the team that has showed every match and receives no score for it and why make it so one captain has to beg another captain to step up and manage their team. That's when hurtful words and situations arise so why not just take those things out of the equation totally and make it just point blank if you don't take appropriate action the team that doesn't show suffers.The penalty will be known by all so if you go there it's on that club and no one else. Then there will be no need for bickering or begging the other teams. 

  Once you have a list of all teams I would be more then happy to create the areas for team captains to use but penalizing both teams for one just does not seem fair at all -

   

   

  OK,

  What is being timestamped? Someone saying "I'm available, someone come play?" I think there needs to be a more flexible system than that - this is a game that is played at different times all over the world.

  If we can work out a system (how does one define "showing" for a match if there is no agreed time in the first place?) Perhaps there are calendar tools that show availability that can be used - see www.tungle.me for an example, have a play.

   

• slor 902 Posts

  Wed, Nov 30 2011 8:52 AM

  bigchunky17:

  If I am reading this wrong I apologise in advance, however having talked to a number of fellow CC members there would be some reluctance in competing in the credits division. Part of the fun and excitement of the "Slors" league is pitting your skills against the best players that WGT has to offer. I think this proposal would mean that "only" the very very best players would take part. There are already "high roller" MPC events (such as the Hustle) that already cater for players who have a healthy credit balance.

  I've been thinking about this for a while in terms of the level of players in the credits division. One idea that has been presented is that the credits division should reflect the current split in ready-go credits (e.g. 500c, 1000c, 2000c). It would be arranged as follows:

  1. The CC League Cup (top match: 2000c). Championship tees. Open to all.
  2. The CC League Plate (top match: 1000c). Championship tees. Not open to players that played in the 2011 Ryder Cup. Not open to players qualified for the 2011 WGA Tour Championship. Not open to any player who has made the semifinals of a Hustle.
  3. The CC League Bowl (top match: 500c). Master tees.

  With this setup, I imagine we would get maybe 5 clubs in the Cup, 10 in the Plate and 15 or so in the Bowl. Just a guess. Thoughts?

   

• Bootsnbra 2,322 Posts

  Wed, Nov 30 2011 4:10 PM

  slor:

   

  Bootsnbra:

   

  As for manpower there is none needed. A document can be created that time stamps everything in google docs and the link sent to Team Captains only. Make it the team captains responsibility to give notice there and to check it daily. It's time stamped and no fuss no muss but if one team fails to show for the other team ( while I understand we all have lives) how is that fair to the team that has showed every match and receives no score for it and why make it so one captain has to beg another captain to step up and manage their team. That's when hurtful words and situations arise so why not just take those things out of the equation totally and make it just point blank if you don't take appropriate action the team that doesn't show suffers.The penalty will be known by all so if you go there it's on that club and no one else. Then there will be no need for bickering or begging the other teams. 

  Once you have a list of all teams I would be more then happy to create the areas for team captains to use but penalizing both teams for one just does not seem fair at all -

   

   

  OK,

  What is being timestamped? Someone saying "I'm available, someone come play?" I think there needs to be a more flexible system than that - this is a game that is played at different times all over the world.

  If we can work out a system (how does one define "showing" for a match if there is no agreed time in the first place?) Perhaps there are calendar tools that show availability that can be used - see www.tungle.me for an example, have a play.

   

  Here were the issues last time:

  1. Player will not respond to a friend invite or setup a time to play opponents.

  2. Player confirmed time and date and did not show.

   

  Now in both of these cases here is what would happen. The player would notify their captain. Captain would enter the Captain area and say I have a problem. The Captain not showing would then take action or on the final date of results to be put in it would be considered an automatic forfeit. Now what this does is take out the need to beg, plead or bicker.

  Look I have a small club and I don't want to argue with anyone. We as a club simply want to play golf, share some laughs and along the way not have to argue with other clubs to get their players to play. ((( Now we all know last time a major club on here faced that problem and it almost knocked them out of a top 10 finish. ))) So let's just make it simple. Make it fair and make it so that we are not put in the position to have to debate, beg, plead or argue.

  Chit happens and that's why we have subs in place but with all due respect there is a degree of respect that is required to play this game. When that respect is brought forward that is when people can relax and just enjoy. Team Captains and Club owners I am sure will be watching to make sure their players are on top of it because no longer will both teams be held accountable. Only the team not complying will be held accountable - 

  Hugsssss,

  ~Bootsie ~

• Bootsnbra 2,322 Posts

  Wed, Nov 30 2011 4:12 PM

  BaaBaaBoom:

   

  as usual a GREAT job BOOTSIE...your foresight...and planning is tremendously excellent ...WGT need an organiser like you....who have the class  to bring all competition to a  higher level....welldone

  BBB

  Hugsssss that was really sweet !!!

• slor 902 Posts

  Thu, Dec 1 2011 8:53 AM

  Bootsnbra:

  Here were the issues last time:

  1. Player will not respond to a friend invite or setup a time to play opponents.

  2. Player confirmed time and date and did not show.

  Now in both of these cases here is what would happen. The player would notify their captain. Captain would enter the Captain area and say I have a problem. The Captain not showing would then take action or on the final date of results to be put in it would be considered an automatic forfeit. Now what this does is take out the need to beg, plead or bicker.

  Look I have a small club and I don't want to argue with anyone. We as a club simply want to play golf, share some laughs and along the way not have to argue with other clubs to get their players to play. ((( Now we all know last time a major club on here faced that problem and it almost knocked them out of a top 10 finish. ))) So let's just make it simple. Make it fair and make it so that we are not put in the position to have to debate, beg, plead or argue.

  Chit happens and that's why we have subs in place but with all due respect there is a degree of respect that is required to play this game. When that respect is brought forward that is when people can relax and just enjoy. Team Captains and Club owners I am sure will be watching to make sure their players are on top of it because no longer will both teams be held accountable. Only the team not complying will be held accountable - 

  Hugsssss,

  ~Bootsie ~

  I don't like the idea of claiming forfeits, but this could be possible to manage. I think the approach to these two problems could be as follows:

  1. Player unresponsive... post on the "disputes" board that the player is missing (by, say, Sunday if the week ends on Tuesday night. People can't be suddenly "missing" if the player posting has left it to the last minute.) If there is no result posted for that match = forfeit.
  2. Player a no-show. More difficult. I think that the time agreed must be posted on this board in advance if this would work. Most players should feel confident in their opponent's reliability and should have no reason to mark the date and time agreed. However, if you are suspicious, post the agreed date and time in advance, then if they are a no-show, post again at that time. (Posting both of these at the time of the game is not acceptable as this could obviously be a source of abuse of the system.)

  I'll try and include some variation of this in the rulebook. Wish me luck.

• slor 902 Posts

  Thu, Dec 1 2011 8:58 AM

  Variation of the Credits Cup / Plate / Bowl I am minded to implement:

  1. Cup - open. Legend tier only. Credits 1000/800/700/600/500

  2. Plate - not open to 2011 Ryder Cup players, Virtual US or (British) Open Championship Round qualifiers. Legend tier only. Credits 500/400/350/300/250

  3. Bowl - open. Master / Tour Master tier only. Credits 250/200/175/150/125

• jvr86 799 Posts

  Thu, Dec 1 2011 11:19 AM

  Hi Slor.

  May be this can give you an idea on how to solve unplayed matches.

  As an owner of a C.C. We have some MP tournaments in wich players must play X amounts of games per week. If the game is not played, I create a tournament on mondays to solve that situation. Tha tournament is free, one day only, and single play. Both player that were not able to set a match need to score there and the best score receive the points. that tournament applies to all unplayed matches and because of the duration players from around the word can post a score in an available time for them.

  Inside the C.C is easy to do this. Because you can contro the coditions, game type and duration. Because this is a tournament outside a C.C is kind of harder lol; but may be you can use the Weekly #xx 9 holes single play for this purpose. if any amounts of player cant arrange the game on time ,if they are interested in getting the points, they should play that tournament.

  Of course this has a disadvantage... I can avoid playing a tough opponent and wait to play the Tournament hoping for a better condition, my own tee... etc. but may be you can solve this by giving only half point to a win this way... 

  I don't know... just an idea that can be developed... because I do think is kind of unfair to lose some points because another player was on vacation or anything like that. It happened to me twice in the Summer league and we lost 2 weeks points because of that.

  Any way if you are interested, let me know and I can come with a full idea...

  Tks.

   

  Jvr.