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nike vr forged. no good.

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 8:08 AM

  YankeeJim:

  To my way of thinking, VEM is an error factor that magnifies your mistakes.

  If you make a mistake (and VEM can determine you did make a mistake), that should reduce your skill level.  VEM won't do a thing.  And if it reduces your skill level enough to go past the threshold, VEM would actually help you get it closer.

  But how does VEM know you made a mistake?  There are many ways to get the ball close. In one case, club down and add topspin, or don't club down and use backspin. In a different case, don't aim so far right and use the slope left of pin to bring the ball back to the pin, or aim further right and don't use the slope, or miss the ding right and don't aim so far right...etc.  So how can VEM tell you made a mistake?

  Maybe as an example, it looks at your preliminary shot result and thinks, "uh oh Jim's 15ft from the pin and his average DTP is 11, that's a mistake.  Let's update his skill level and check against the threshold.   Nope, still below the threshold so nothing for me to do here. Let's go with Jim's shot untouched." OR "Yep, that's above the threshold, Jim's having a bad couple of days I gotta help him out.  Let's go with this improved result 3ft from the pin."

  And I do agree the skill level has to be based on more than only the shots in the current game.  You need a wider view, but not too wide.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 9:02 AM

  andyson:

  Maybe as an example, it looks at your preliminary shot result and thinks, "uh oh Jim's 15ft from the pin and his average DTP is 11, that's a mistake.  Let's update his skill level and check against the threshold.

  Again, you think VEM is in play on every shot, acting as an artificial intelligence capable of making decisions before shots are rendered. I don't. I think it's a variable derived from the tables I mentioned that's plugged into the shot equation.

  I also think those tables are structured and used based on your current performance in a given ranked game. In other words, you have more than 1 table in your profile and current game performance dictates which one is to be used. The better your score  gets, the tougher the table gets.

  A sort of oblique analogy would be the way automobile manufactures brought smog controls to vehicles. They installed inputs, outputs and actuators in cars and used computers with lookup tables to determine action. The sensor on the throttle plate detects you put your foot on the gas and the lookup tables say increase the injector pulse width to provide more fuel and then provides a fixed value to the output solenoid-or injector. 

  While the lookup tables in the car's ECA (Electronic Control Assembly) are fixed, the tables in the VEM module change based on performance. I become the input, the rendering becomes the output and VEM provides the proper variable.

• alpenpirat 1,128 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 9:04 AM

  Have the same with RSI 2 irons today.There are a big disaster.

  I rented them today, and im happy to go back with my old clubs. 

  My Nike VR lvl 85 i bought for a while. First month they are working very bad like the Taylor RSI 2 today. But now, i can hit every time more shots very closed to the hole. This clubs must have a good controll with the dots by the spin. Allways top or only down spin give to much negative reaction by the hit. I do some trainings and reaktion rounds with a simple WGT Tour GS I balls. I doo lot of hits with them under 6 feet close to the hole. This give me a good practice in the rounds with the better Nike RZN lvl 81 balls. 

  Regards 

  Alps 

• siggipj76 2,989 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 9:44 AM

  1 or two rounds on rentals and you say the rsi2 irons are a disaster ?

  A bit quick to come to that conclusion.

  I personally love them.

  I did also like the 85 nikes, it just takes time to find out what they do on different courses.

• alpenpirat 1,128 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 10:15 AM

  @ Hy Siggi

  Thanks for your words... well.. some times i have a knocking down from wgt to my egoism. ;))))    You are right. Same i told about my Nike Clubs before.. It got a while to understand them and make good rounds as well. Otherway i have to write something down, the same you wrote here, to have a look whats going on the different courses and greens. 

  Well. i give you a big cheers back. and have a good time. 

  Regards 

  Alps 

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 1:30 PM

  YankeeJim:

  While the lookup tables in the car's ECA (Electronic Control Assembly) are fixed, the tables in the VEM module change based on performance. I become the input, the rendering becomes the output and VEM provides the proper variable.

  I realize you thoroughly understand how the ECA works and uses lookup tables to determine the outputs, but don't get hung up the WGT VEM System implementation must be a lookup table. There are hundreds of implementation techniques that give the same result. 

  However, your idea of how VEM works, your analogy of the ECA, and my idea of how VEM works all describe a simple feedback control system.  We're talking the same thing.  The feedback is provided by the past skill level based on past history and the output is modified based on the difference between past and current skill levels.  How the output is modified makes no diff.  If it helps you to think it pulls a number from a table, fine.  No one know but the guy who wrote the code.

  I don't know what you mean by "VEM is in play on every shot."  Is the ECA in play every second the motor is running? Yes it is.   Then yes VEM is in play on every shot.  Does the ECA adjust the output if the inputs don't change one iota?  No it doesn't, status quo.  Then no VEM does not adjust the shot every time.

  Artificial Intelligence is not what I described.  Its a simple feedback control system.  If it were AI, it could deduce from a change in the input pattern that someone else, someone new,  was using an account and create a whole new history and a new skill level for the new player.  And perhaps it would have learned from the T&C that two people on the same account is not allowed so Icon would be notified. ;-)  It would also recognize a new player's pattern matches the pattern of Legend197632 so a multi would be reported or not depending on the current state of Net Income.  It could solve a lot of "issues" around here. ;)

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 2:04 PM

  andyson:

  I don't know what you mean by "VEM is in play on every shot."  Is the ECA in play every second the motor is running? Yes it is.   Then yes VEM is in play on every shot.  Does the ECA adjust the output if the inputs don't change one iota?  No it doesn't, status quo.  Then no VEM does not adjust the shot every time.

  I think you have it. There's a VEM variable in every equation which is what I mean by "in play." It's the thought that VEM is responsible for a particular bad result that I take exception with. Claiming so is just shifting blame for lack of execution. My perception. ;-)

   

• andyson 6,415 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 2:18 PM

  Yep, VEM is not responsible for every bad result, 99.35472% its on me. ;o)

• VEM9000 169 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 3:28 PM

  It's nice to know that I haven't been forgotten, Dave. Oh wait, Dave's not here, man! I hear you knockin' but, you can't come in. Such detailed speculation on my operational attributes is truly flattering. I just may have to adjust my variables to compensate, hmmmm.

  Vem :)

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Jun 19 2015 3:32 PM

  VEM9000:

  It's nice to know that I haven't been forgotten

  Pffft. Not only have you not been forgotten, you've been exposed, you sorry excuse for a poor shot.  Get  yo momma to push da car.  LOL   :-P