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What is WGT doing to take measures against cheaters

Fri, Oct 17 2014 9:39 PM (131 replies)
  • mkrizan86
    1,866 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 1:47 PM

    AgentBrown123:
    My idea would be implementing a way for all players on wgt to not only see what other players ding percentage is but the actual percentage of a whole ding only in MPC, alternate shot, and big stroke play tournaments. These are the only competitions where they are very unlikely to tank it the game it make it look normal.

     

    Not a bad idea. One flaw though, unless the percentage is calculated off the green only, you'll never catch me. I'm an off ding putter ;-)

  • Spammage
    694 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 2:52 PM

    I am a "ding" player and 99% of the time attempt to hit the ding.  I have never calculated my percentages (and I have some games that are better than others), but I know that if I were hitting 99.5% of the dings as the OP posted, I would be darn near perfect on every round.  If this slow meter thing somehow reacts with flash the same way as the high priced balls do I can see that it is a possibility that it can be manipulated.  The software has to be used to adjust meter speed based on the club (R11 iron vs Nike Putter) and balls (starter vs max vs cally vs Nike, etc) on EVERY shot.  Can't the programmers install a double check system to record the actual meter speed after each shot to ensure that this kind of crap isn't being utilized?  I am not a programmer, but I would think that you could have the data recorded and compare to a calculated figure (with normal tolerances) to show that you hit a Nike L94 putter to 10 feet of power on the 100ft meter and you were using a Nike Level 61 ball - the meter should have taken .78 seconds to hit the ding.  If the measured time was .83 seconds or .73 seconds it would be within "normal" tolerance but if it took 1.65 seconds then "Houston, we have a problem" and the data is submitted to WGT to review and handle accordingly.

  • ThreeSpot
    476 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 2:59 PM

    I wouldn't bother with ding %. Just implement a shot history for tournaments and matches played for money. As part of this shot history, capture time of mouse release (starting time of the down swing) and time of subsequent mouse click (ending time of the swing). The difference between these 2 times should make it trivially easy to detect a slow meter cheat.

  • keidan
    311 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 3:53 PM

    ThreeSpot:

    I wouldn't bother with ding %. Just implement a shot history for tournaments and matches played for money. As part of this shot history, capture time of mouse release (starting time of the down swing) and time of subsequent mouse click (ending time of the swing). The difference between these 2 times should make it trivially easy to detect a slow meter cheat.

     

    Spammage:

    If the measured time was .83 seconds or .73 seconds it would be within "normal" tolerance but if it took 1.65 seconds then "Houston, we have a problem" and the data is submitted to WGT to review and handle accordingly.

     

    +1 on this approach but... this is a bit trickier because we are now asking for a utility that operates in real-time domain and could affect the feel of the game i.e. trying to extract a time stamp during the swing and right at or near the ding point

     

  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 5:05 PM

    WGT wouldn't be able to catch the one AB is referring to, I saw the video.

     

    The meter zipped along at normal speed, the stopped and crawled just prior to the ding line.

     

    It was well within WGT "shot release" time.

  • keidan
    311 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 5:11 PM

    MBaggese:

    WGT wouldn't be able to catch the one AB is referring to, I saw the video.

     

    The meter zipped along at normal speed, the stopped and crawled just prior to the ding line.

     

    It was well within WGT "shot release" time.

     

    Yes that would require polling for times along the swing every fraction of a second which would bring meter stutter issues to a whole new level

  • jayw4862
    3,364 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 7:41 PM

    Spammage:
    Can't the programmers install a double check system to record the actual meter speed after each shot to ensure that this kind of crap isn't being utilized?

    The meter is strictly the flash player. So many times, people complain about jumpy or super-fast meters. That in itself would make the supposed meter speed vary. I have 2 PC's (Vista and 8). I will only play on Vista, as I can hit the ding at least 80% of the time when I "try" to hit it. On my fancy super-duper new PC, I might hit the ding twice in a round. I also like to video every single round I play (yeah, I know), and with the new PC, it's impossible because my meter has spasms like crazy. On Vista, the meter is smooth as silk. And, the game client fills the entire large screen without any maximizing being done, and (maybe it's just me) the ding line seems larger by a pixel or two. It could also be that I played for over a year on the Vista and am not comfortable with the new PC.

    I think that some of the meter-cheats exist in the RG CTTH competitions. I also don't see how WGT could monitor a program (Flash Player) that is on every player's computer. Just the different versions of Flash would throw a kink in that, I believe. Not everyone uses the latest version.

    But, since the game is created using Adobe's software, it seems Adobe would creat something in return for the $$ WGT has paid them.

    Since I am not good enough to be competitive, I am not affected (except in the free weekly and monthly tournaments) by the people who can't play and have to use cheat software. Some people in this world are just born LOSERS, and WGT, having so many players signed up, is going to have a ton of those born LOSERS, and since their self-esteem, and egos are so low, they feel like winners when they cheat. Kind of like doing cocaine makes one feel like Superman (but, when it's over, you're still the same nobody that you were before that snort). I used to smoke, drink and do dope. I quit drugs in 1990, and quit drinking in 2007. Still smoke like a chimney, though :-(

    I wish there was a way WGT could monitor suspected accounts, at least. Monitoring every account seems impossible. And posting % of dings won't really prove anything. That's just my opinion.

    I've watched all of the top player's videos on YT, and one thing I did notice was that they rarely hit the ding. Dinging is not the perfect shot. Maybe that's why WGT has the deviation, and circle of precision in place.

    Take the ALS tourney going on now. I believe the circle of precision for putts is about half the size of the cup. I asked about the circle of precision once, as a legend. I wondered why dinged shots were 20 ft away (correct distance) in no-wind tourneys. I video'd 20 dinged par 3 #10 shots and they were sprayed all over spanning 40 ft (one hole in one included).

    What AB described in the video definitely sounds like cheating software. Hopefully, WGT saw the video, and dismissed the player forever. It's kind of stupid to cheat and then show it to the world. The mentality of cheaters equals that of a rock.

    I think I got off-topic a little. Sorry :-)

  • AgentBrown123
    907 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 8:11 PM

    Like I said before, I'm fully aware that my idea has it's flaws. Perhaps wgt shouldn't make the stat public, maybe they should just be able to see and be aware of the stat and take action when needed for the high stakes stuff. Obviously putts shouldn't count :)

    The main point of concern is the fact that I haven't seen a single thread or message from wgt pertaining to what they are doing proactively to stop the cheating. In the least let us all know they are aware of the cheating and they are doing something about it. Maybe they do know how rampant cheating is, so in their eyes they believe the almighty dollar could be jeopardized because half of wgt would be banned...Exaggerating obviously but, I just don't get why more hasn't been done. 

    Why would wgt put in so much work to create a great game, but not take proactive thoughtful measures to rid the cheaters. It's RUINING their game that they put some much of their time towards. 

    Time for wgt to start thinking outside the box and start being more proactive. The fact that an actual ad popped up on THEIR website with a cheat just tells you they lack in this area. I am impressed with how they have been more proactive in terms of country club improvements. This area however is of utmost importance. Communication would be appreciated from wgt. 

    AB

  • ladyluck87
    2,287 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 8:42 PM

    MY SUGESSTION ...how bout wgt making the ding point bigger like below .....keep the ding sound but remove the "excellent " word when you hit it....in this way..the vem circle is in the dinging space which is wide.....as hell...so everyone will be happy ...easier to ding...even if you ding right at the centre it doesnt mean you gonna get it very close TO THE HOLE...

    now everyone can ding 99.5% of the time....and still the same people will win the tournaments.....wanna bet....LOL LOL AND DOUBLE LOL...

  • spdemon
    1,588 Posts
    Mon, Sep 8 2014 8:53 PM

    MBaggese:
    I saw the video.

    But they did get rid of that fella 

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