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is there anyone left that don't quit

Tue, Oct 12 2010 1:13 AM (179 replies)
  • lilrob88
    870 Posts
    Sat, Oct 9 2010 11:46 AM

    Why did the quitter cross the road?

    He didnt. He quit before he got across.

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Sat, Oct 9 2010 1:05 PM

    VanHalenLover:

    andyson:
    I'm speaking of the unlimited play weekly, monthly WGT tournaments.  Like the weekly 9-hole and monthly 18-hole, unlimited play free tournaments.  The "Limbo. How low can you go?"

    I am speaking of the same andyson. I tested this a few weeks ago (I rarely play these, so getting locked out of them didn't bother me. I don't think it was a glitch as it is now   programmed to lock a player out of they use the quit/end round option. The next time I went to play it again, after quitting, it said that I was no longer able to play it as I quit the tournament. 

    It was a WGT mistake, the weekly unlimited play was set up as a single play.  Its back to where it should be so YJ is right, "You can quit your butt off in the Unlimiteds and play them as many times as you like."

    Another "oops moment" this afternoon.  Played some CTTH and Blitz this morning and went to work in the garage, had lunch sat down at the computer and teed off on the weekly 9-hole unlimited. 10th tee at St. Andrews, the caddy gives me my 3H club.  I had added wedges for the CTTHs and removed my Driver and 3W.  Good thing I was able to End game/Main menu out of it.  Would have wasted a half hour under your harsh system.

    Similar thing would happen under your system in a two player ranked MP game and one player quits.  I'd be left having to spend a half hour completing my game alone, when I'd prefer company, so I'd probably be miserable and make a half hearted, hurried effort to get through the round as fast as possible and my score would not be representative of what I could shoot. 

    Also, in the weekly unlimited tournaments I think the same thing will happen.  Say I've already recorded a 32, (-4) for a 9 hole unlimited play.  I start another round to see if I can shoot -5 but I'm +1 after 3 holes.  Not likely I can shoot 6 under in the last 6 holes.  Today I can restart by End Game/Main menu.  But under your system I'd have to waste another 20 minutes hurrying through the last 6 holes to start again.  My score would balloon and again not be representative of what I could shoot.  I'd look like a friggin' sandbagger.

    Since you admit to not playing the unlimited, I can understand how you can come to this illogical conclusion:

    VanHalenLover:
    Posting every score will give a long term overall ACCURATE average to base tiers off of -OR- force those players who manipulate scores to do it by artificially posting high scores, and not just simply dropping unwanted rounds. This score history wil make it easier to identify sandbaggers, finally.

    Personally, I don't give a rat's eyelash about people manipulating their scores or averages or tiers.  Its not a big deal with me.  Cherry pickers only hurt themselves.  Sandbaggers?  pfft, easy to spot, easy to avoid, fool ya once, shame on you, check their profile before agreeing to a challenge. Deal with it in MPCs. Tiered tournaments? No sandbagging in the Legend tier.  Let WGT solve it for the other tiers by adjusting the average computation and tier promotion criteria.  Remove some of the the tee differential with a new driver for Legends and the sandbagging TMs and Masters issue for Legends in RGs goes away.

    No need for a harsh system saying you can't end a ranked round if you want or need to end it.

    Please stop claiming your system solves the quitting problem.  It doesn't since it doesn't cover quitting multiplayer practice rounds and forces people to finish rounds they don't want or need to finish.  People quit those and contribute to all the posts on the forums on quitting.

    Faterson's method addresses only the quitting issue with no claims to solve the world of WGT's problems.

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Sat, Oct 9 2010 1:20 PM

    lilrob88:
    Why did the quitter cross the road?

    To get away from this thread!

  • Richard4168
    4,309 Posts
    Sat, Oct 9 2010 1:46 PM

    There is no perfect way to stop sandbagging.

    Don't have a heart-attack Andy, but VHL, I have to agree with Andy. There has to be a better way. That measure seems to be too extreme VHL.

    What about using a points system with a handicap attached, and remove our visible average?

    Is there truly a way to stop sandbagging? If someone could figure this out, it could stop sandbagging in all kinds of sporting competitions.

     

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Sat, Oct 9 2010 2:42 PM

    Richard4168:
    Don't have a heart-attack Andy, but VHL, I have to agree with Andy

     

    My last comment here about manipulating scores: There are easier, faster, more efficient ways to manipulate scores than enter and then quit a multi-player ranked round.  Therefore I question the validity of tying quitting to score manipulation.

    Someone please find/start another thread about stopping sandbagging.  This thread originally was about solving quitting multi-player games and got off track discussing score manipulation.  Yeah I'm guilty too, 

  • VanHalenLover
    1,422 Posts
    Sat, Oct 9 2010 3:32 PM

    andyson:
    This thread originally was about solving quitting multi-player games and got off track discussing score manipulation.  Yeah I'm guilty too, 

    I personally don't think they are off-track, but for the purposes of this thread I would agree - except for the fact that my approach tries to address both, that I am guilty of also.

    Lets look at it from the perspective of quitting only. There is no way to prevent someone from closing a window and quitting, so if that is REALLY all we are discussing, there is no need to discuss it any longer, lol. 

    Now, when you start trying to implement a system of punishments or rewards, you simply aren't discussing 'quitting-only' any longer. For the topic of this thread, I agree that we have covered anything, and will have to agree to disagree again.

    Thanks again for discussing it openly and not letting it turn vial again. And as much as I'd like to go along with your request to stop claiming it will stop quitting, I can't, cause I think it will end it!!Time for me to.....

     

  • Greggatshack
    21 Posts
    Sat, Oct 9 2010 3:59 PM

    In my experience I'm not aware of anyone who has quit a game that I've been playing because they were a sandbagger. The only quitters that I have played with appeared to quit because they were protecting a low average or were just upset about something. 

    People who are bad-tempered and get upset easily and quit because of it are going to do so anyway. I'm not particularly worried about them because I don't think they represent a large proportion of the problem. In my opinion it is those protecting a low average that are the main offenders (at least as it appears to me in my experience of the people that quit on me).

    So... to reduce the incentive to quit for "cherrypickers" we simply need to forget about the tier labels (Legend, Master, etc) and have a floating handicap system just as we do in real golf. When you enter a match with a particular handicap then that is applied to your final score (or on a stroke by stroke basis for matchplay) and you will compete on a level playing field with the rest of the players in the match. A "cherrypicker" in this scenario will quickly get sick of losing matches just as they do in real life and will come to let their true playing ability dictate their handicap.

    Now the faster thinking viewers of this thread will be struggling to stop their fingers moving towards their keyboards to apprise me of the fact that "sandbagging" will be rife in such a system... and I agree... unless you create a handicapping system that also discourages sandbaggers.

    I once had an email exchange with a guy called Dean Knuth (you American's call him the "Pope of Slope" because he invented your slope handicapping system). He said his club had ways of penalizing such people by taking strokes off them for competition purposes once they had won a competition or two. However this only works at a club competition level and is in effect a secondary handicapping system.

    I would instead propose, for WGT purposes, that the handicap that is applied is based on the golfers best score of the last perhaps 20 ranked rounds that have been completed (adjusted for the conditions eg, tee positions, course difficulty etc). You will probably now be saying that a person may have had a "fluke round" and to handicap based on this would be unfair to him. Well if this is the case then he will have had a delightful experience at the time and this should be good enough to sustain him through the coming hard times while that "fluke" score is passing through the WGT digestive tract.

    You can have low gross competitions for the best players to compete in, but for the rest of us we need to have a leveled playing field based on our real abilities. There is little point in me teeing off in a competition for money or anything else against a golfer whose average is 5 strokes below mine. The WGT experience of playing off different tees will make little difference to the result as his average is based on the tees he is playing off while mine is based on the easier tees. This means that he would be expected to beat me by 5 strokes (more if we played on the same tees).

    The system of handicapping in real world golf is what makes the game one of the most popular sports in the world across all age groups. While what I have proposed may need some fine tuning to make it workable in WGT, it is my honest attempt to come up with a solution to the problem of quitting and secondarily of sandbagging. 

    Cheers

    Gregg

    PS: I wasn't in any way trying to compete in the "75 words or less" category. ;-)

     

  • mohuyu
    891 Posts
    Sun, Oct 10 2010 5:55 AM

    Quitting is the worst problem in this game - its like a disease. i think charging people for multiplayer rounds isnt the right way to go. But your avg should increase after u quit . that way there is no point

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Sun, Oct 10 2010 6:32 AM

    VanHalenLover:
    Thanks again for...... not letting it turn vial[sic] again.
    Back at you VHL.  (and its vile not vial)

  • isolater
    426 Posts
    Sun, Oct 10 2010 7:55 AM

    VanHalenLover:
    Lets look at it from the perspective of quitting only. There is no way to prevent someone from closing a window and quitting, so if that is REALLY all we are discussing, there is no need to discuss it any longer, lol. 

     

    if there was just a fun side  there would be less reason to quit   even if having the worst round of your life  cause the score won't matter   you are only playing for level  points

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