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No Wind = Huge Deviation?

• WGTicon 12,511 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 4:04 AM

  yes, no wind is prone to deviations just as much as with wind.  I seen some puzzling results in past as well, but that's because if you hit early with left to right wind and have a left deviation, you may have a great shot... without wind, you will not 

  -wgticon

• Chinajohn 1,190 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 6:02 AM

  WGTicon:

  yes, no wind is prone to deviations just as much as with wind.  I seen some puzzling results in past as well, but that's because if you hit early with left to right wind and have a left deviation, you may have a great shot... without wind, you will not 

  -wgticon

  That would be logical IF... I take extensive notes on all my approach shots, but I only keep notes on dinged shots, these are from my notes (and are only a small sample) all of the following were dinged.

  St George

  #10

  Dist    Elev    Wind   Fm    Pin     Aim    Club    Offset         BS/TS           Result

  121     +12ft        0    -----    B/L   123(-2)      9i         2L             100%B          11ft+

  123      +9ft        0     -----    B/L   120(-3)    PW         2L               0%N           12ft-

  103      +8ft         0    -----    B/L   104(-2)   56W       3L                 0%N          3.6ft-L

   

  #11

  241     -8ft          0    -----    Cent  239(+1)   3W        4R            100%B         17ft+L

  241     -8ft          0    -----    Cent  239(+1)   3W        4R            100%B          6.9ft-R

   

  #14

  248     +4ft        0      -----    B/CR  248(-1)    3W       5L                0%N        13ft-RR

  249     +3ft        0      -----    B/CR    250        3W      13L               0%N     18ft+ Fringe

  260     +3ft        0      -----    B/CR  Max250   3W       13L              0%N             32ft-

  To me some of these shots make no sense, all were dinged in no wind.

  Possibilities:

  1. I'm lying my butt off. (I can discount this but you can't).

  2. I'm insane. (I couldn't know if this is true so will discount it).

  3. The wind is still there only we cannot read it as the meter is set to 0.

  4. The precision for my clubs is altered in no wind rounds.

  I suspect #3 but whatever I will no longer be playing no wind competitions.

• TWOMINUSONE 2,580 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 6:13 AM

  I have to agree on this 1. If i aim away from the hole and ding it, the ball will land exactly where i have aimed. But if i dont aim away from the hole and still ding it, i will land up to 15 feet either side of the hole. It happens every time. Thats all im saying on the subject.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 6:24 AM

  Chinajohn:

  4. The precision for my clubs is altered in no wind rounds

  In order for you to determine this you would have to be able to discern what that precision is in a wind scenario to have something to compare. Not sure how you can come up with empirical evidence when a random wind is involved. You're also adding another influence in some of those shots with spin and that's not how to see what the true deviation in your clubs is. Too many variables to draw a conclusion.

  When I was racing to TL those No Wind tournaments were extremely helpful in determining just how accurate the 97 Nikes were with the 33 Callaway. They were very consistent using no spin and gave me a good look at what I could get away with. IMO, trying to be that exact is just an exercise in frustration.

  FWIW, on your very first example you're choking a 9i that goes 135 to get to 121+ elevation. That choke is suspect because you can't be exact. A 120 yard PW with top spin lets you take a full swing and you get better results any time you can take that full swing.

• Chinajohn 1,190 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 6:41 AM

  YankeeJim:

  Chinajohn:

  4. The precision for my clubs is altered in no wind rounds

  In order for you to determine this you would have to be able to discern what that precision is in a wind scenario to have something to compare. Not sure how you can come up with empirical evidence when a random wind is involved. You're also adding another influence in some of those shots with spin and that's not how to see what the true deviation in your clubs is. Too many variables to draw a conclusion.

  When I was racing to TL those No Wind tournaments were extremely helpful in determining just how accurate the 97 Nikes were with the 33 Callaway. They were very consistent using no spin and gave me a good look at what I could get away with. IMO, trying to be that exact is just an exercise in frustration.

  FWIW, on your very first example you're choking a 9i that goes 135 to get to 121+ elevation. That choke is suspect because you can't be exact. A 120 yard PW with top spin lets you take a full swing and you get better results any time you can take that full swing.

  I agree we don't have enough evidence to be able to get to courtroom levels of proof however I think I have enough to provide some musings, (and certainly enough for me to avoid said tournaments).

  As to the first shot, I agree a 9i wasn't the best choice, but if you look closer the very next attempt on that hole from a very similar distance I used a PW with no spin and came up 12ft short! That is exactly the type of inconsistency I was talking about, (and one of the reasons I used those examples).

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 7:24 AM

  Chinajohn:

  As to the first shot, I agree a 9i wasn't the best choice, but if you look closer the very next attempt on that hole from a very similar distance I used a PW with no spin and came up 12ft short!

  This is where course knowledge and knowing what your clubs can do comes into play. That hole plays long on the approach and short shots will stay where they land without spin help, especially that Nike PW which is a CG in disguise.

  Play the tournament over and over using the same shots and you'll get a better picture of your clubs as well as a look at how each hole actually plays. Give yourself some valid data to compare.

• gmaster007 2,101 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 7:50 AM

  Chinajohn:

  I agree we don't have enough evidence to be able to get to courtroom levels of proof

  you'd think WGTPizza's own admission would be enough...

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 8:57 AM

  gmaster007:

  Chinajohn:

  I agree we don't have enough evidence to be able to get to courtroom levels of proof

  you'd think WGTPizza's own admission would be enough...

  Quote him in context, he was just using a droll comparison to data.

• fatdan 3,379 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 9:53 AM

  I found after playing certain holes over and over and different 9hole sides that dinged shots with 0 wind would land anywhere from a swish to 8 ft away from pin in any direction...dinged shots w/ very low winds were closer, anywhere from inches to 4/6 ft in any direction, as were shots aimed off the flag and hit early/late in 0/or low wind....

  I get closer with wind than w/o wind...

  Another thing I found was w/ 0 or low wind I was better off hitting drives shorter on short holes and rolling a short/middle iron up to hole with topspin than trying to drop wedge shots on the hole...JMO, some days it works perfect for me, others not as well...

  ie: 142yds to hole I go with 135 club w/ topspin rather than choking down a 150 club w/ backspin

  127 yrds I go with 120 instead of 135...129yds I don't....

• PaulTon 10,731 Posts

  Fri, Apr 25 2014 10:46 AM

  Would moving the aim and then compensating by 'off dinging' get good results in no wind?

  Just a thought, I haven't tried. I'm easily confused.