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When do you add or subtract yardage?

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Fri, Mar 25 2011 5:13 AM (8 replies)
  • Poindexter12
    23 Posts
    Thu, Mar 24 2011 6:10 AM

    I add or subtract yardage for wind, elevation and applying back or top spin.  I'd love to know how you adjust for similar conditions. 

    Everything below is based on the Calloway i(s) ball.  I usually expect between 5-8 additional yards, depending on the club being used with that particular Calloway ball.

    For a tail wind, 10 miles per hour, arrow pointing at 12:00 I subtract from the yardage I need from the club, about 4 yards for a wedge, 5-6 for a mid iron and 7-8 for a wood.  With a 140 yard club I expect about 152 with a tailwind of 10mph.

    For elevation, I add a yard for every 3 feet uphill.  Second shot on BP#2 is usually about 36 feet uphill so I plan for an extra 12 yards from my club.

    Applying full back spin, I subtract about the same yardage as I would add for a 10 mph tailwind.  In other words, with a 140 yard club I expect about 135 with full backspin.  With full top spin, I rarely get more than 2-3 additional yards.

    Like every thing else in this game, there are no guarantees.  I once had a 180 yard shot at SA with a 20mph tailwind.  I used a 155 yard club and the shot ended up going 237 yards.

    Using the above calculations, I can sometimes land within 2-3 yards of the stick.  (Of course, I then proceed to 2-putt from there, but that's a topic for another day.)

    I'd like to know from anyone who cares to share how you adjust for wind, elevation and backspin.

     

    Thanks,

    Poindexter12

  • oakdesign
    6 Posts
    Thu, Mar 24 2011 3:43 PM

    I use a percentage from distance calculation for wind

    +-2% for 5mph wind +-3% for 7 mph +-4% for 10 mph +-5% for 12 mph and so on. For me that works perfect  so for a 150 yd shot with 20 mph headwind i would add 12yd whereas for a 80 yds shot i would add 6-7yds.

    for elevation i add 1yd per 3 feet uphill if i use wedge or short iron and 1yd per 2ft on long iron shots downhill i subtract 1yd per 3 ft downhill on every club

    backspin
    I did a few practice rounds and hit at least 10 swings on KIA #1 up and down the fairwas with every club so out of the average I know exactly what me clubs go for with full backspin

  • genorb
    1,255 Posts
    Fri, Mar 25 2011 1:56 AM

    That's a complicated subject because it depends on many parameters both course parameters and equipment/setting parameters.

    Course (obvious parameters):

    1) Wind affects distances. This we all understand qualitatively how it works. Quantitatively, the formulas of Oakdesing make sense (I would add a bit more stregnth, with 20 mph headwind I use 10% additional strength more or less, but I use backspin almost all the time). However, as the final distance of your shot depend on many other parameters, this is not the end of the story.

    2) elevation affect distances but here this is already tricky. If you have uphill elevation, your ball will land shorter but the horizontal component of the ball velocity is bit larger (you have to do a small drawing and knows a bit about vectors to get this). So if the green is very slippery, your ball will run more on the green. If the elevation is downhill, then the ball will land farther but will run much less.

    3) now whatever is the elevation or wind, the fine structure of the place where the ball will land affect distances. If there is bumps on the green, depending on which side of the bump the ball will land (and the size of the bump) it will affect much distances. For example on st andrews hole #2, when the flag is placed behing the big bump of the green, if the ball land on the downhill side of the bump (the part behind the top of the bump), then your ball will not stay on the green in general. So here it is better to shot longer than usually necessary to stay on the green. So this means that a shot with more strength can finally be shorter than a shot with lesser strength (this is probably what happened to the shot you mentioned where using a 155 yds club, you did a 237 yds shot, even with 20 mph tailwind, this would not happen on a completely flat surface).

    4) the type of lie (fairway, rough, fescue, sand etc) of course affect distances.

    5) the type of green (slow, fast, tourney etc) also affect distances for your approach shots.

    So as you can see, formulas to adapt distances are not always enough even if this is a good basis to know more or less which strength and club to use. The formulas of Oakdesing make sense. But you need to test them and adapt them to your way of playing (are you using often backspin or not compared to Oakdesign for example, this would affect the formulas) and to your club

    Equipment/setting:

    1) the ball you are using affects distances

    2) The trajectory of your club affect distances. Indeed, for a given horizontal distance, with high trajectory your ball travels more distance in the air than with high/med ot med trajectory. So if there is wind, the trajectory is more affected when you are using clubs with high trajectory.

    3) spin used affect distances

    4) dinging or not your shot affect distances.

    So you understand that giving formulas is not easy because there is no general formulas. It depends on too many parameters. But as I said the formulas of Oakdesign are a good starting point.

    Regards

     

  • PRBBLUFF
    91 Posts
    Fri, Mar 25 2011 2:28 AM

    just learn the game and hit the ball......

  • mantis0014
    8,946 Posts
    Fri, Mar 25 2011 3:06 AM

    Poindexter12:


    Like every thing else in this game, there are no guarantees.  I once had a 180 yard shot at SA with a 20mph tailwind.  I used a 155 yard club and the shot ended up going 237 yards.

    This sounds like St.A #5

    You shouldn't get too technical too early.

    When I first started out I wrote down on paper, what clubs I used, what wind conditions, which direction the arrow was pointing at and which hole/course, backspin or not...you might not get those same conditions again, but it helped understanding which clubs to use.

    I just add or subtract the figures..eg; 20mph hitting into the wind, with 165yrd to go (165+20=185), I would use a 190club (maybe just short of full) with full b/spin...you might come up short and be left with a 10-15ft putt or it might be just perfect.

    As I said before, With respect, at the Ave. you are on now don't worry too much about figures cause it will confuse you more. The more games you play, the better you will get :) ... as long as you remember the bad shots you do and try not to do them again.

    good luck

      Roger

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Fri, Mar 25 2011 5:00 AM

    I guess. :-D

    Kidding aside, Dodger fan's simple statement is more revealing than it looks. Instead of trying to calculate an exact number just know how that particular wind and direction is going to affect your shot and play to enhance that affect. Add a little for a headwind, subtract a little for a tailwind, aim against it, miss against it, etc.

    You will drive yourself nuts using whatever empirical data you have to compute the exact yardage, pick the perfect iron and ding the shot only to see it miss your perfect calculations anyway. Get close, drop the putt and move to the next challenge. LOL-waaaay easier to say than do.  

  • lindaJB
    4 Posts
    Fri, Mar 25 2011 5:13 AM

    i prefer to use landing surface... the most important aspect of a shot is where they land...

    wind and elevation is common knowledge...the place where the ball lands makes all the difference...be it iron shot ,wedges or wood,,,and from there u will adjust for wind elevation and roll ...,according to the feel of ure clubs..

    backspin or to top spin..depends on the surface of where the ball is gonna land...

    mostly i use backspin on my drives  with tailwinds..so as to gain more loft...and less unpredictable rolling...60 deg and 64 deg wedges i rarely use a backspin with callaway balls...cause they will not roll more than 1 yrd unless you punch with it on a strong tailwind..prepare to lose distance with a backspin shot with wedges..and 3 dots spin callaways ..landing on an uphill elevation with a wedge can make the ball backspin more than 5 to 10 yrds backwards ...lol...as u know backspin distance is very difficult to gauge hence inaccurate

  • chrisironsbones
    3,524 Posts
    Fri, Mar 25 2011 5:48 AM

    For wedges, i half the wind if its headwind/tailwind then add or subtract distance to the yardage i need to hit, i.e if its 10 mph headwind, i add 5 yards, 20 mph - 10 yards and 30 i add 15, so if i have a 80 yard shot with 10 mph tailwind i'll use my 75 yard wedge with a touch of b/spin.  Remebering if you use full backspin with wedges (or irons) my 75 yard wedge is 77 with callaways, or 75 true yardage, but if i use spin, i have to calculate from 72 not 75(true) or 77 with callaways

    But the 50/60 yard wedges don't go much extra, i.e 50 yarder with 10 mph or 20 mph is 52/53 yards, probably only 55/56 with 30 mph.

    For 9i and 145/160 yard iron its 6 per 10 mph. For 175 yard iron its 6/7.  And for 190/200/210 yard irons i add 7/8 yard per 10 mph wind.

  • Fredddddy
    177 Posts
    Fri, Mar 25 2011 8:41 AM

    I do everything by feel just like in real golf otherwise it gets way too complicated.

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