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World Stroke Play Rankings 23 June 09

• ncviz 527 Posts

  Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:11 PM

  Paul, Git has touched on the one thing I see wrong with your points system. It probably should mirror more the way pga players are ranked. I'm can't be for sure but WGT's distribution seems a little top heavy, which it should be because of payouts, more to the top winners basically. I like otherwise, nice idea.

  As far as handicapping, that's not a bad idea, it's the worse idea. I could see that going south pretty darn quick.

  And Skip, I don't know where to start. You have pretty much made a mockery out of that top ten list. Of course WGT has let you, but that's still no excuse. As far as I am concerned your account should always be tagged into the highest tier. If you want to think you're "#1" why not have to play other top players. Problem is you're a borderline top 20 player, and then here comes the handicap talk from you. I really find that laughable.

• nivlac 2,188 Posts

  Thu, Jun 25 2009 4:39 PM

  tibbets:

  If you think the multiple accounts/sandbagging issue is bad now, multiply the problem by a factor of 10 if there were a handicapping system in place where people were actually  giving or getting strokes against/for  in moneyed tournaments.

  No, thank you.

  ---

  I don't think there should be handicapped tournaments for the reason above.  Besides, this "everyone's a winner" politically correct mentality is what's killing this country. 

  This is a competitive game of skill.  You either have the skill or you don't and if you don't, then you practice until you do.  There shouldn't be a feel-good system in place so everyone gets a chance without putting in the effort.

  As an aside, I think gitthe's "Tours over Tiers" plan is a good one, though licensing the use of those names may very well kill the idea with expenses.

• TallAcePaul 1,455 Posts

  Fri, Jun 26 2009 4:02 AM

  This ranking is only based on Masters Scores(and the old Ameteur teir) and is only made up from 18 hole free single play tournaments. There would be a case for entering some of the pay play tournaments but only if they are open to all to compete in. Player vrs Pro is US Canada only. The additional tournament that could be used is the June Masters open but i'm not sure I want to exclude people who cannot afford to pay the fee.

   

  Multiplay tuornaments represent  peolpes perefect scores with no pressure and I think that this need to be based on single play tournaments. I know that there are oddites in the game which can affect a round by a few shots but life is not perfect and this is a good feature not bad.

  The top 50 players are those that make it on to the front page of the results, if your tied but on the second page, tough.

  I think the 20 points for weeklys, 40 for monthlys and 80 for majors needs to be tweeked and I think 30,50, 80 would be better, based on the split shown below. If we assume at this stage that there are 52 weekly, 12 Internation Open Monthly and 2 majors( i can feel a Britsh Open coming on) then 2320 points will be available, also split as shown below.

  Place	% of Purse	Points Available	Place	% of Purse	Points Available
  1	15.00%	348	26	1.25%	29
  2	10.00%	232	27	1.20%	27.84
  3	8.00%	185.6	28	1.15%	26.68
  4	6.00%	139.2	29	1.10%	25.52
  5	5.00%	116	30	1.00%	23.2
  6	4.00%	92.8	31	0.50%	11.6
  7	3.90%	90.48	32	0.45%	10.44
  8	3.80%	88.16	33	0.40%	9.28
  9	3.70%	85.84	34	0.35%	8.12
  10	3.60%	83.52	35	0.30%	6.96
  11	2.00%	46.4	36	0.25%	5.8
  12	1.95%	45.24	37	0.20%	4.64
  13	1.90%	44.08	38	0.15%	3.48
  14	1.85%	42.92	39	0.45%	10.44
  15	1.80%	41.76	40	0.43%	9.976
  16	1.75%	40.6	41	0.41%	9.512
  17	1.70%	39.44	42	0.39%	9.048
  18	1.65%	38.28	43	0.35%	8.12
  19	1.60%	37.12	44	0.34%	7.888
  20	1.50%	34.8	45	0.32%	7.424
  21	1.48%	34.22	46	0.30%	6.96
  22	1.45%	33.64	47	0.28%	6.496
  23	1.40%	32.48	48	0.26%	6.032
  24	1.35%	31.32	49	0.25%	5.8
  25	1.30%	30.16	50	0.24%	5.568

  As to handicaps, are you mad, one word, bandits.

• anotherhook 17 Posts

  Fri, Jun 26 2009 4:52 AM

  I was thinking about the number of people who currently sit in each rank. People have a thing about handicapping - fair enough if you want to have a reasonable shot at winning something now and then. This should be sorted out via the tiers we have. 4 tiers should cover enough of the issues with different levels of golfer. Would it not be better to have the tier system based upon a number of players per tier - say top 500 in master, next 1000 in pro (I don't know how many are playing regularly, but if 187,000 played the US open, it must be a reasonable number)

  Each week / month there is a tournament for each level. If you are master you play master tournies. BUT... if you are pro and want to play master, which would have more ranking points, then you could play a qualifying round. That step might be too complex to program short term, so why not have the ranking system sort out a proper system for who plays which tier. Regular players will then rise up the rankings as older results lose their weighting (refer earlier post on current world ranking system if unclear), and people could essentially have their handicap system in place.

  Think of it as Hooters tour, Nationwide tour, and PGA tour. The current system is severly flawed because your tier cannot go backwards, So you can go from Hack to MAster in 1 day by playing a nine hole challenge off front tees and no wind 20 times and get your average under 68. It is not a round average issue, as paul has shown very well. It is about competing with people at your level and either settling where you are or aspiring for better.

  On the weightings, If we got 4 round tournaments for majors, I think they should be worth a much higher percentage than normal. If they stay at 1 round (which they shouldn't) paul revised system look great

• AvatarLee 1,644 Posts

  Fri, Jun 26 2009 4:59 AM

  You guys may think I've gone mad but.... yes to handicaps!  BUT.... and it's a HUUUGE BUT.... In the lowest tiers ONLY as it translates closest to the local club level of golf in real life.  However before that can happen the tier system, and how to be promoted needs a SERIOUS overhaul.  It is just too easy to be pushed up through the different tiers right now as we've seen by the plethora of forum posts about it since May.  Make it harder to be promoted and I believe you will see the sandbagging/multiple accounts issue be reduced somewhat, because people would actually have to invest time and work on moving themselves up the ranks unlike how it seems to be now.

• SkipMan20 29 Posts

  Fri, Jun 26 2009 5:45 AM

  ALee you are right we would work hard and make time if the system was set up better.  Tib you are dead on correct, Lottery golf with single play tourneys, we should have multiple rounds and I would compete every time. Ncviz I have made a mockery out of the ranking because I play by WGT rules. Fine!  I agree with you on the point I am barely a top 20 player, I stated as much myself I was maybe a 67-69 IF I POSTED EVERY SCORE. Game Management, Game Management.  Watch the Game Management implored by everyone when we re-set. If the top players used Game Management, they would still win everything and have an average in the 50, s (trust me on this one.)  Ncvzi, Nvczi, or whatever your name is ; you say you do not know where to start’ PLEASE!   A mockery  Hmmmm! LMAO   Remember we played once and I smashed you, destroyed you, and never heard from you again. I have run off 5 birds in a row with some top players(three in the top ten) and they just quit, so why waste my time.  I can take the beatings  with grace.  Ncviz come again when you want another beating.  LMAO  Love the game and enjoying you guys quite a bit.

  Later

• ncviz 527 Posts

  Fri, Jun 26 2009 6:50 AM

  Lord, you are so pathetic. You have never played me, and if you did it wouldn't be even close. But keep living in that fantasy world you have created for yourself. I have a record of scores they people can look at. What do you have? A bunch of unranked skills scores, end of story.

• SkipMan20 29 Posts

  Fri, Jun 26 2009 9:17 AM

  Ncviz, I thought we played in a foursome with Nivlac, and I cannot recall the others.  Nivlac won that day with a 29 or 30.  If I am mistaken I am sorry.  Why do you hate on me so much.  I give you the credit that you are a good, good player with $800 plus to show, 450 plus posted rounds, I admit you always surface on the leader board, yet I am not calling you names, just giving you credit.  You give me nothing and call me pathetic. Hmmmmm, I am wondering what the real problem is here! You need not worry I will not address you ever again.  

• Jarid 31 Posts

  Fri, Jun 26 2009 9:35 AM

  This is a great thread...however its BS WGT isn't chiming in and this is carrying on like this. This is a very competitve game and for those of us that have put hundreds if not thousands of hours into it need to be recognized. As we all know the top ten is a joke.  WGT what are your plans, do you want help from us??

  Handicap this game and i'm quitting. Its already "lottery" why sell worse players more tickets?

  There are some great ideas in this thread on how to do it. So work with them and lets get this done. 

  But tweak it a little and get me infront of NCVIZ! I got it -3 points for running your mouth:)

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

• SkipMan20 29 Posts

  Fri, Jun 26 2009 11:57 AM

  RYM = minus (-3) points, just beautiful Jarid and I also have those strong feelings you shared about Handicaps. 

  Enjoy your day  Thank you