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PUTTING - Gauging break and power (a formula and work in progress).

Sun, Jul 8 2012 5:47 PM (125 replies)
  • turbo08
    40 Posts
    Tue, Feb 28 2012 6:50 PM

    Interesting conversation guys.

    Gold, just a couple of questions:

    1. If you have a break that goes both ways do you simply enter a negative number for the opposite direction?

    2. The break in grids closer to the putter tends to have less effect than the break in grids closer to the hole as the ball slows. If all your heavy break is at one end of the putt do you make any adjustment?

    Weida, with respect to putting speed I notice from watching Bollox's youtube videos that he gives it a fair crack, especially closer to the hole. For example, it seemed a few putts of around 6 ft he was almost hitting the stated distance on tourn greens and not allowing too much for the break.

  • CyberTwiXX
    91 Posts
    Wed, Feb 29 2012 7:18 AM

    If that's what floats your boat ...... get er done.

  • WeidaDeNei
    298 Posts
    Wed, Feb 29 2012 12:45 PM

    Not completely sure how G0LD will answer these questions... But personally...

    1. The first grid will always dictate my starting break...

    For example: If the first grid broke L-R... and the Thrid grid broke R-L... I would log the third grid as a negative and simple subtract as u mentioned above.

    2. For most on here who putt only to get the ball to the hole... the above statement u made is true. BUT... Due to the fact that I am an agressive putter most of the time the break is obviously effected less towards the end of the putt.

    2.1 - As mentioned about Bollox... I saw the same thing... and on flat surfaces with little calculated break I will play the edge of the cup and play the putt at the distance given... Usually within 7 ft.. Only time I dont do this is on downhill putts... Will lip out way to many.

    2.2 - On downhill putts where I play the putt more towards the cup I will give the END of the putt grids an additional POINT or 2 in additional speed to adjust to the additional break that comes with the putt slowing down.

    Hope this info helps u out. I am sure G0LD most likely has additional info.

    - Weida

  • G0LD
    358 Posts
    Thu, Mar 1 2012 12:30 PM

     

    "1. If you have a break that goes both ways do you simply enter a negative number for the opposite direction?

    2. The break in grids closer to the putter tends to have less effect than the break in grids closer to the hole as the ball slows. If all your heavy break is at one end of the putt do you make any adjustment?"

    First, turbo08, there is never a grid line crossing your immediate path to the hole that displays two opposite breaks. So the opposite breaks must be consecutive, and must be read as such, modifying the end break value.

    Second, as Weida intelligently points out, you must putt beyond the hole somewhat to precisely avoid what you fear; i.e., the ball sluggishly veering off the predicted putting line as it nears the hole. But be careful! Wildly overshooting the target can set you up for a difficult par, or worse, a bogey, which is maddening after a failed birdie attempt.

    Let me add that the excellent stopwatch idea to gauge break speed can be mentally applied by internalizing the pace of the ticking seconds. 

    Also, there is no doubt in my mind that some of the motivated players using my formula will do better than I in the actual context of putting, due to a better ability to attribute an accurate numerical value to the break, combined with a better ability to ding the putts. Indeed, students will often surpass their teachers, and the disabled old me welcomes that natural development.

    All the best!

     

  • JimbeauC
    5,835 Posts
    Thu, Mar 1 2012 5:02 PM

    G0LD:
    They are the numerical values assigned to each of the seven lines I mentioned

    You still don't say how these numbers were calculated. 

    What's the highest value possible?

    Does a low number 1represent the fastest or slowest moving dot?

  • G0LD
    358 Posts
    Thu, Mar 1 2012 7:07 PM

    Jim, please read my initial post thoroughly, and other posts I have written in this thread about this very concern. I DID state clearly that higher is faster, and that experience is key in accurately assigning a numerical value to the travelling balls along the grid lines. 1 is moderate speed, and the other numbers follow that logic.

    Take care.

  • WeidaDeNei
    298 Posts
    Thu, Mar 1 2012 7:25 PM

    Jim,

    Numerical value is based on what YOU think it should be...

    For me I have it set 1-8...

    1 being very min. movement... and 8 being extremely fast...

    I took a stopwatch and used that to determine my different speeds...

    (Just practiced and calculated until I felt good I got the whole spectrum of speeds covered.)

    After that I used G0LDs method from 20 ft (roughly) and calculated the same putt over until it went in... I wrote the calculations down and moved on...

    I tweak my numbers every once in a while but overall the break numbers are near perfect.

    MY PROBLEM lies in the speed. It seems like now that I play mostly tournament greens my calculations on distance are off... sometimes I will roll them by 1ft... then the next time I putt the same exact one the same exact way it will roll by 3 ft....

    Baffles me...

  • mattk72
    1 Posts
    Thu, Mar 1 2012 9:01 PM

    I made an excel spreadsheet to do the calculations if anyone is interested.  I'm waiting on a reply for the program, however, which I think should be a bit cleaner.

  • JimbeauC
    5,835 Posts
    Thu, Mar 1 2012 9:55 PM

    G0LD:

    assign a numerical value to the balls that travel along each line, as they indicate the topography, or surface configuration, of the green. To that effect, experience and observation, together with memory, are essential, not to mention the necessary willingness to bother gauging the break accurately in the first place. Weariness and laziness lead to sloppiness, which in turn produces mediocre results, or worse. I know that all too well, as I myself am guilty of such laxity at times. But I have old age and physical disability as an excuse. I'm sure you have your own excuse, defensible in your own eyes. Be that as it may, the result in all cases is the same: don't do the math, be off the path = dismal putting.

    Say for example that there are 7 parallel lines between you and the hole, with the following pattern:  1-1-2-2-3-4-3 (the bigger the number, the greater the break). 

    You say that you explain the numbers. Please point out to me where, in the quote, you describe how your numbers are determined. It would seem to me that before you use these numbers, the method would be clear. 

    In your most recent post... 

    G0LD:
    1 is moderate speed

    Define moderate. So, slow would be -4 or some such? 

    I'm not doubting the efficacy. I only want to know the exact method. 

     

  • WeidaDeNei
    298 Posts
    Thu, Mar 1 2012 11:59 PM

    Hey Matt,

    A few people have worked on spreadsheets to work this all out.

    AccurateDriver

    AndySon - (Just did it for fun. Not sure if he even uses it.)

    Both big time computer guys.. You should send AccurateDriver a message and I'm sure u 2 can share some ideas.. He posted earlier on this very thread discussing his work.

    For me I like to work out the "math" of it on paper.... (I guess I like the sound of my forehead hitting the brick wall.)

    As I said to the above peeps.. Good Luck in your ventures!

    - Weida

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