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If you were to buy one thing?

• AvatarLee 1,644 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 7:14 AM

  Yes, but his theory is still sound Faterson.  The closer the approach the shorter the putt, the more chances of making the putt.  IMO the driver barely beats the putter in this aspect.  Especially when we talk about Bethpage, when you get to the pro tees there and you haven't upgraded the driver, you will be in a lot of trouble.

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 7:17 AM

  AvatarLee:

  Yes, but his theory is still sound Faterson.

  Yes, it is. And there are alternative sound theories.

• tibbets 1,043 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 7:55 AM

  Experience is not a theory. It is fact.

  The theory being put out here is that upgrading a putter before a driver will decrease scoring faster and more economically than upgrading a driver will.  My experience is one shared by countless golfers on here, especially those of us who have been here since the beginning.  I have yet to meet a person who upgraded their putter first.  Until we hear the experiences and see the results of those who have, your notion will remain a theory.

  FYI My putting stats now are comparable to before any of the new putters were introduced.  They have improved slightly since then, but I can easily chalk that up to knowing the greens better and having shorter putts regularly just as much as having new equipment.

• Infinito3010 3,689 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 8:13 AM

  A little food for thought.  The ability to get up and down, and to 2 putt is just as important as hitting a long drive.  Thus, hitting a longer drive will definitely promote your ability to shoot par or better on a hole.  But lets not forget, drive for show, putt for dough. 

  So by all means get the new driver, but take the time to learn the short game.

  Putting is essential in any good round.

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 8:34 AM

  tibbets:

  Experience is not a theory. It is fact.

  Yes, and my experience confirms the fact that it's much more useful to have a high-quality putter in your bag than merely a driver that prolongs the tee shot by 10 yards. Therefore, unless someone wants to upgrade to a high-quality driver ($8 or more) straight away, the first choice for an upgrade might be a putter, ideally the Spider if the player isn't in the Pro tier yet.

• GITrDONE 701 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 8:49 AM

  tibbets:

  Experience is not a theory. It is fact.

  I am tempted to say case closed on that Mr. Tibbs because I doubt anyone could arguee against the fact you are probably the most experienced player here at WGT.

  I am just against saying case closed in any open discussion on any topic.I do agree with you on this matter.The driver was the first thing I got as an upgrade.It has helped more than any other upgrade.The putter was the second best upgrade for ME.I have tried all three putters and settled on the Redwood.The reason I chose the Redwood was the yardage meter increments.They are easier to decipher.I just want to play golf not go to math class every time I get on the green.lol

  P.S. The Redwood does have a big old sweet spot (imo)

• Doublemochaman 2,009 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 8:55 AM

  Speaking of starter clubs... gosh (!) I miss the challenge of reaching the fairway on Bethpage #5.  Remember all the theories put forth.   I recall there was a mound or two you could aim for that would jettison your ball out of the deep rough onto the fairway.  Otherwise you were  dead.  Ahh, the good ol' days (of just 6 months ago) when we were shackled with only the starter set of clubs.

• tibbets 1,043 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 9:09 AM

  Ok Faterson.  Your stats show that you 2-putt nearly 60% of the time.  Do you mean to tell me you'd do worse than that with another putter?

  Your scores are more indicative of the fact that you average 17 ft from the hole on the approach.  It doesn't appear the Redwood is helping you when your stat for putts 10-25 ft is 2.50%.  That equals about 3 makes out of 100 tries.  So at best, the Redwood helped you make maybe one more out of 100 tries.  That's about one extra made putt every 5-6 rounds from your average distance.  Not really seeing a big scoring revolution there.

  Let's also add the fact that you and I use the same putter, yet with widely different results.  Obviously, the putter itself does not make the golfer, referring back to my earlier statement of the unique skill set involved with putting.  A better putter wont help you reach the green in 2 on Kiawah #4, and Bethpage #'s 2,5,7,10,and 12 to put that superior equipment to good use.  Only more distance off the tee can do that.  Since those holes represent a larger percentage of the overall score of any given round than the difference a better putter makes as per the stat comparison above, the obvious conclusion is that a new putter will not help you as much as more distance will.

  Infinito, it goes without saying that in order to score well, all facets of the game must be wielded with a degree of skill.  Putting does end up being one of the most important things, but it is the skill of the person wielding the equipment on the green, not the equipment itself, that determines the results.  I could probably putt well even with a sledgehammer.  I couldn't reach the green in regulation with one :)

• Faterson 2,902 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 9:22 AM

  Tibbets, all stats are skewed. Nothing is more inane than judging a forum poster based oh his alleged number of rounds played. You're all forgetting those stats only include ranked rounds. Loads of community tournaments are played in practice-mode, and stats from all those rounds are lost. My real putting stats at this point may actually be a lot better. You are also forgetting that my stats, skewed as they are, include the stats from all the 5 putters I've ever played with in this game, so to draw conclusions about the Redwood from those overall stats, is ridiculous to the utmost.

  (I already said much of the above on page 3 of this thread, but I realize you rarely read threads to which you contribute, Tibbets.)  

  Finally, someone, a Master player, has just posted something to another thread, confirming exactly what I've been saying here:

  dynasteel:

  A. Its not how you drive, its how you arrive.
  
  B. Drive for show, putt for dough.
  
  I bought my putter first, for the simple fact that there is not "master" tier putter. Thats all i had before making master, then i bought all the rest of my equipment. Because im cheap i suppose....

  For players like this, and not only for them, the putter might be the first logical choice for an upgrade.

• Infinito3010 3,689 Posts

  Wed, Dec 23 2009 9:42 AM

  It would be interesting to see a sledge hammer being used on a putting green.  But temperament with good judgement.  I may not play as well as tibbets yet, but it is coming along. But don't forget, Kiawah came before Bethpage.  Thus, when I started during U.S. open week, the ability to get up and down was a primary importance.  I think I spent more time in the rough and sand as result of not being able to reach the greens in regulation. And yes they were with starter clubs.  But my Ham and Egg award and Sandman award results speak for itself.