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Levels and equipment available

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2015 1:54 AM

  Jimbog1964:

  A dude just banged in a 24 at the Kiawah RG and doing fine elsewhere with L90 irons, and so the equipment value gets way over played past L90.

  I'm not going to look at who they are so I can't be accused of implying anything about them, which I'm not.  largely it doesn't matter how they did it, the reason you are pointing it out is because it is exceptional.

  I was in a St Andrews high wind uel rg yesterday; 7th place (33) was a player who joined 2 days ago and in 14th (34) was another that joined the day before.  At the time both were using the clubs given to them for free.  Does this suggest that we don't need upgrades at all, but could still compete?

  Jimbog1964:

  Loads of threads on a new tier, and I am a big advocate of that to give people something to aim for.

  Yes this would help if it happened but the talk has been there for a long time, there is no new tier.  

  I'm not after something here, I'll be able to get the top putter in about 3 weeks and I could get the driver on the summer offer, I just think it's unfair to expect people to compete with the best players while giving those better players an advantage.   If the pro shop was opened to the top tier and another tier was formed, the new tier would therefore become the one where the pro shop was open and TL's would need to reach the level required or that tier.

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2015 2:27 AM

  DodgyPutter:

  Does this suggest that we don't need upgrades at all, but could still compete?

  Are you sure you need that answered, LOL.

  DodgyPutter:

  the reason you are pointing it out is because it is exceptional.

  No.  The work that goes in is exceptional, not the tools.

  Pragmatically I think that new tier is the best way of getting the pro shop opened a bit early.  If any one can't get to that with level 90 gear they should not be near a RG anyway.....

  DodgyPutter:

  I'll be able to get the top putter in about 3 weeks

  If you are hanging on the L101 Putter to make a difference to actual results good luck, you are going to need it.

  Enjoy the new toy.  Might make a difference (edit: to what was long since available) once every 150 rounds, once you learn it and if you like it...........

  Support the new tier as nice to be able to back yourself, and I do think WGT look a bit too stayed in a levels system looking very tired by the late mid 90s, but at L90 it's really there scoring wise, and by your  L100 you are long since cooked. 

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2015 4:22 AM

  ISH47:

  I think the reason they have the equipment available by level is to keep people grinding.. If you were to reach TL at level 93 and have the pro shop fully open to you, at which point you'd immediately grab all the best sticks, then you'd see once and for all that it's not the equipment.. you just suck and you'll never be as good as Mags!!  

  Then you'd quickly lose interest in the game, quit buying balls, no more clubs to buy.. End of the road for you and, more importantly, no more revenue to WGT.. LOL

  This is probably the truth of wgt's thinking.

  While I know I will never be as good as Mags I will finish ahead of him, albeit very rarely.  These low cost rg's he uses as a warm-up are the best chance, lol.  It is still true that better equipment leads to better scores and therefore more chance. I loved the vapors when I got them (!), probably mainly due to the increased forgiveness sadly, and they did help me improve my scores. 

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2015 4:48 AM

  Sanco:

  One I am not looking at better equipment to compete and win credits and two I buy all my equipment with my money and this also helps the game financially, so if I were to be able to give them another $50/$60 - why not?

  As ISH suggests they want you to spend on the best you can get at the moment and then spend that $50/$60 again and again.  If they let you go straight to the best gear then you'd only spend it once.

  The red tee stuff is just Jim's red herring, they are hurting nobody and having fun their way.

  Sanco:

  I am not sure why every thread inevitably becomes a 'you suck' opportunity. I know I do, so that does not add anything to the knowledge I already had.

  I agree. 

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2015 4:56 AM

  DodgyPutter:

  The red tee stuff is just Jim's red herring, they are hurting nobody and having fun their way.

  No it has to be part of it because so many TLs are TLs only because of red tees, and therefore revenue is involved.  It is why I advocate the new tier to leave them be to have fun, and teh only reason I mentioned them.  Important to mention them as therefore part of it, but as I also said away from equipment making any difference to (certainly by L90 if not long before from those tees).

  The one thing we all 100% agree on, as it is the the indisputable given 200% obvious, is that revenue is the driver.  The only question is do they have it right, and could it be done better for all.  My pragmatic solution is the new tier as a way of prizing things open a little early for those that really need - the red tee people would not care, but the RG people would appreciate the options.  Scoring potential is done pretty much by L90 though.

  It is painfully easily obvious that there must be an upper limit to this ending.  5M Xps is not a remotely sensible possibly for anything that makes a difference.  Sooner or later it has to cap (only perceived as is / nice options), and so eventually I do predict some (crystal balls  balls ya know, LOL) extra tier to fast track things............Some change or the decides to fade.  

  I think the L90 new irons was finally an admission that it has to be basically done by L90 as seeing L97 as meaningful was losing more than it was keeping, and the restarters simply restart anyway.....Who really knows on that last bit other than many do.  What is very clear is that there is no meaningful scoring difference to be had between L90 irons, and L97 irons and the difference between L97 irons is zero (tangible real term leader board harsh reality).

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2015 5:28 AM

   

   

  Jimbog1964:

  DodgyPutter:

  the reason you are pointing it out is because it is exceptional.

  No.  The work that goes in is exceptional, not the tools.

  What I meant (and said) was simply that the scoring of this player was exceptional, there are various possible reasons for it, if it wasn't why bother mentioning it.  If it is exceptional then we can't all do it or it wouldn't be.  

  Jimbog1964:

  DodgyPutter:

  I'll be able to get the top putter in about 3 weeks

  If you are hanging on the L101 Putter to make a difference to actual results good luck, you are going to need it.

  Enjoy the new toy.  Might make a difference (edit: to what was long since available) once every 150 rounds, once you learn it and if you like it...........

  Support the new tier as nice to be able to back yourself, and I do think WGT look a bit too stayed in a levels system looking very tired by the late mid 90s, but at L90 it's really there scoring wise, and by your  L100 you are long since cooked. 

  What I actually said was:

  I'm not after something here, I'll be able to get the top putter in about 3 weeks and I could get the driver on the summer offer, I just think it's unfair to expect people to compete with the best players while giving those better players an advantage.

  I suppose the misquote is necessary to laugh at my skills and desperation to get better.   If you try reading again you will see I was pointing out that in 3 weeks I can get the best of everything, if I want to.  I may or may not get the putter and/or driver, hardly seems reason for what followed.

  Ok, you're so much better than me.  The fact is that the shop is pretty much open to both of us, I want TL's at lower levels to enjoy the same privilege you don't.  Which one of us is after (keeping) an advantage?

  A simple question no need need to resort to "red tee" nonsense and you're not wgt, so profit making isn't your concern. I'd simply like your opinion.

  As all the weekly/ monthly etc etc competitions are set out in tier is it fair that some have to wait a year or more to do so on an equal footing? Should they only play in CC competitions or not play in any competitions at all?

   

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2015 5:30 AM

  see below

• Jimbog1964 8,378 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2015 5:34 AM

  As soon as some one makes some serious points against you it always goes to way off tangent with you.  No one ever else has the problem......................It's all clear enough for all to see and read.  You are the only one who reads stuff in...

  DodgyPutter:

  I want TL's at lower levels to enjoy the same privilege you don't.  Which one of us is after (keeping) an advantage?

  So do I just with a pragmatic approach that I can see happening - new tier and ways (hoops to get there).  Not ideal for all but better than is now...........Emphasis on the privilige there as advantage wise you get just upset about when I disagree with you, and start the misquote discussion for whatever reason best known to you.

  It's all very simple to read for all, and they have the whole thread.  If anyone was using wrong parts and getting the wrong end of the stick with red tees etc it's you as usual, but I don't get so upset as you about it as people can flick through the thread if it's that important, but usually point wise it's OK anyway.  ...........Well is to everyone except you, when you don't get someone agreeing with you and then we get the dummy spit as usual.

  EDIT: Anyway I am not going to have yet another discussion with you on your minds idea of how to quote in a forum......Points on the subject are clear enough...save the dummy spit for elsewhere please, but no doubt an attempt as to how you were misquoted and anything other than to do with the points clear as daylight to any one other than you ..................You are as good as misquoting as any one and the best at getting the wrong end of the stick:

  DodgyPutter:

  I suppose the misquote is necessary to laugh at my skills and desperation to get better.

  There ya go - nothing to do with the price of eggs, not mentioned or even inferred anywhere...I suppose that is a misquote too to you??  To the world it's you dummy spitting with the wrong end of the stick yet again, and because some one disagreed with you - certainly it's anything other than the point of this thread  And looking back my other quotes were actually all very pertinent and rather well made, just disagreed with you and also pointed out your assumptions about my red tee comments being wrong with your misguided red herring statement, and did you the courtesy of saying why rather saying just re read what is plain as day clear anyway.

  My view is the equipment makes near zip difference past L90...deal with it...Nice to have but harsh reality of day light score wise hardly ever a difference.........fine if you think different great, just grow up...........

• Sanco 1,345 Posts

  Thu, Jul 23 2015 1:45 PM

  Jimbog1964:

  My view is the equipment makes near zip difference past L90...deal with it...Nice to have but harsh reality of day light score wise hardly ever a difference.........fine if you think different great, just grow up...........

  Forgive me if I disagree here Jim. The balls themselves make  great difference and yet they're all available at fairly low levels. I play callaways (which I like very much) and other TL's with the top level nikes give me 10 to 20 yards on a drive, thus making approaches a little easier - and let's not talk about TM's with same. Not complaining though as I could just as easily buy those balls and compete on the same distances. I choose not to. Why can't I have the same choice with other gear once I am at the top?

  I agree with you though that the equipment makes little if any difference once at a certain level. But if I can make a silly comparison I would say that (if I had the money) I and Vettel could both buy a Maserati and get different kinds of enjoyments out of owning it and he'd still rip my bum to shreds if we'd raced in it.

  Yes, another tier would be nice too.

  So, pragmatically having to wait, and stagnate for another 3 months with same equipment, same tiers and same courses results in some revenue to disappear for WGT as players are moving to PP and other golf games less convoluted.

  I hope I have made sense with the above.

   

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Fri, Jul 24 2015 2:19 AM

  Jim I'm not going there with you either but if you do keep misquoting me I will return the compliment again.

  This thread I thought was about the merit of lower level Tour Legends getting access to better equipment.  The new tier may help eventually, but it is not helpful to use it as a carrot to dangle while doing nothing and I have mentioned it  in a bit cut from one of the misquoted paragraphs. 

   I just think it's unfair to expect people to compete with the best players while giving those better players an advantage.   If the pro shop was opened to the top tier and another tier was formed, the new tier would therefore become the one where the pro shop was open and TL's would need to reach the level required or that tier.

  That would address it now and change it as you want it in the future.

  As to the likelyhood of a new tier soon, you will remember.  

  Thoughts please - New Tier Above Tour Legends? 

  WGTadmin2 1,129 Posts

  06-14-2014 9:40 PM

  Help us think this thru

  And after 4 months and 18 pages of discussion.........

  WGTyphoon 597 Posts

  10-05-2014 5:24 PM

  Appreciate all the input on new tiers. 

  -WGTyphoon

  (If you really want to know what I think about the new tier you could read that more appropriate thread again.)

  So over a year later and with no real word of a new tier, it really isn't an answer to the original post.  

  Jimbog1964:

  DodgyPutter:

  I suppose the misquote is necessary to laugh at my skills and desperation to get better.

  There ya go - nothing to do with the price of eggs, not mentioned or even inferred anywhere...

  If you are hanging on the L101 Putter to make a difference to actual results good luck, you are going to need it.

  Enjoy the new toy.  Might make a difference (edit: to what was long since available) once every 150 rounds, once you learn it and if you like it...........

  Support the new tier as nice to be able to back yourself, and I do think WGT look a bit too stayed in a levels system looking very tired by the late mid 90s, but at L90 it's really there scoring wise, and by your  L100 you are long since cooked. 

  ...........and all about a putter that was nothing to do with the point I was making.  By the way, I did notice you have edited the above, taken out the occasional LOL, toned it down etc, if you really need to then it's fine with me.  It does make it a wee bit hard to answer you though. 

  Incidentally the "dude that banged 24 at Kiawah" I now looked at, in addition to the level 90 irons had a TM black driver and a level 94 nike putter.  How often do you think he used his irons? Maybe four times?  He'll have used the other clubs at most holes, so to use this score to support the view.......

  Jimbog1964:

  My view is the equipment makes near zip difference past L90...deal with it...Nice to have but harsh reality of day light score wise hardly ever a difference.........fine if you think different great, just grow up...........

  ......is misleading.  As to the tone of that paragraph, you are funny.