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V E M !

Sat, May 27 2017 4:10 PM (485 replies)
  • MBaggese
    15,367 Posts
    Sun, Sep 21 2014 7:18 PM

    lonniescott711:
    My game ball is the 11+ Srixon . I was using the 33+ Callys back when I had the R11s irons but went back to the Srixons after getting the 97+ nike irons.

     

    This may sum it up Lonnie. 

     

    Let's sum up two things as I know it

     

    VEM makes you play better...mis hits are more pronounced, etc.

     

    Deviations are there all the time..i/e 2-4 MPH wind at BPB or KI..adjust for it...ding it, and ball lands like the wind was heading the other way.

     

    Point is VEM just makes you stay on you game, VEM doesn't make a dinged shot fly 15 feet off line, that's deviation.

     

    Now if the VEM be kicking in at the time of the above shot I just mentioned, and you miss the ding on the wrong side...just by a scooch, a pixel, a gnat's azz...you might be 40 feet away.

     

     

  • ZioMio
    4,680 Posts
    Sun, Sep 21 2014 7:39 PM

    MBaggese:
    miss the ding on the wrong side...just by a scooch, a pixel, a gnat's azz...you might be 40 feet away

    ...  especially if you have full spin on the ball, for me anyway!

  • Jimbog1964
    8,378 Posts
    Mon, Sep 22 2014 6:23 AM

    Just hit a major bucket list item I set for 2014 so feeling a little smug.  Never thought it would happen but 10' dist to pin came up today for me.  Now anyone can go through my score history and it's mostly RGs, and some dross in there.  Do I WD yes I do as RGs I treat as economic propositions only, but I reckon I submit easily 85% of even RG scores,  My CC runs many comps but I mainly do the single play stuff even there and it's not BoF bashing.

    No top player but no mug either I think 10' says.  Now my 1 putts are not 60%, and I would like to get to that before years end even if that looks tight to say the least.

    I will admit I still do not fully understand how real top players can shoot great scores consistently at PH so quickly.  I firmly believe the critical distance to the pin is obtainable in an overall fashion on any course fairly soon, but putting at PH took me a good while.  

    Anyway in my game what I see is the following:

    There will be WTFs, and there will be whole periods of WTF in brackets or otherwise.  Some of that is explainable and some well WTF.  However OVERALL the game will allow people to do well IF they work.  I don't play as much as some of the top players, and so gap closing I suspect will be slow to nothing,  Nonetheless IMO the big thing is that old chestnut drive for show and putt for dough.

    Blaming VEM (DEVIATION) / whatever for a poor long term game is as easy as it is nonsense.  Learn the courses and learn the greens is where it is at.  I can see I miss some putts through not having notes / mentally knowing that hle through many many RRs.  

    99% of what people think is VEM and I would go so far to say as even deviation is not really knowing a hole.  I miss costly putts daily and miss ding on approach and all the rest.  I am not winning RGs all that often either, but overall with effort I do OK.  I can see though that with the effort of the top players their scores are way more explainable than many may first think with my progression in mind.

    Bad holes, rounds and even periods will happen.  Overall though the only difference between a player and doing well is the effort to really understand the course they are playing.

  • PaulTon
    10,731 Posts
    Mon, Sep 22 2014 7:06 AM

    Jimbog1964:
    Bad holes, rounds and even periods will happen.  Overall though the only difference between a player and doing well is the effort to really understand the course they are playing.

    DING!

  • ShadyShank
    629 Posts
    Mon, Sep 22 2014 8:28 AM

    mkrizan86:

    P.S. : Thx for not giving me hell about the flag animation, I really only go into my "game settings" just to turn off the HIO challenges and putter and shot pals ;-)

    Sincerely and this time with respect,

    MK

    First, good post, but I can honestly tell you that your name did not enter into my thoughts when speaking of the rare complete A-holes here. And, I forgot all about that thread you mentioned and will read your response soon.

    I've come to realize that what I've been saying concerning the V word, while I believe to be mostly on target, I've seen others explain it in ways that are different than mine, but that I fully agree with. IOW's, I already write too much as it is, and have given my takes on the topic in pieces, so to speak.

    In my defense, I have said that I believe it mostly affects putts compared to other shots, and happens rarely. As for the game play, I think it's a mix of what many have said in this thread. I think the game does react differently depending on a player's activity and progress, and is programed to do so, obviously. I believe if a player is on a tear for a week and their average drops a few points rapidly, they are likely to experience some major frustration soon on the greens.

    Last, I just don't think the game needs a VEM-like program if it's already programmed to adjust difficulty based on a number of variables. Seems to me, a player will learn more and faster without having a program that makes them think they are putting badly, and thus need to adjust something they actually don't even need to be concerned about. It's like an unfair wildcard I feel is not necessary in this game.

    And thanks for your overall post. I appreciate it when people take the time to explain where they're coming from, and always respect it, and often find I do, or say, some of the very same things for the same reasons.

    Peace

    SS

     

  • PBaldwin
    108 Posts
    Mon, Sep 22 2014 10:14 AM

    Jimbog1964:

    Just hit a major bucket list item I set for 2014 so feeling a little smug.  Never thought it would happen but 10' dist to pin came up today for me.  Now anyone can go through my score history and it's mostly RGs, and some dross in there.  Do I WD yes I do as RGs I treat as economic propositions only, but I reckon I submit easily 85% of even RG scores,  My CC runs many comps but I mainly do the single play stuff even there and it's not BoF bashing.

     

    I wish that distance to pin showed up to the tenth as it seems so hard to move.  I'm curious as to what some of the top players ADP is in a typical round or over the course of their last couple hundred rounds.  The best I see in peoples stats are 9-10 ADP.  I wonder if some people are averaging 3-7 ft fairly consistently and it's just too hard to budge the stat from all the rounds learning the game.

    My best rounds are about 4 ft ADP and am usually around 7-12 ft.  Some rounds might jump up higher especially with some of the par 5's that I might just land on the front edge of the green(Kiawah 11 happens all the time).  So I wonder if that's just typical or if I'm still not getting quite close enough consistently.

    My putting has come a long ways so even if I am pretty far away I can still shoot pretty good.  I can do better on ball location on the greens though as I leave myself 6-10 footers downhill or side hill putts a lot.  I would much rather take a 15 footer up hill than some of those.  I always have to try and land on the pin though.

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