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Programming II

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Wed, Oct 24 2012 5:15 AM (118 replies)
  • Ffudd
    2,541 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 9:07 AM

    Maybe the properties of the equipment don't change but there are other possibilities - putting my tin foil hat on now :-)

    Say a club has a circle of deviation that is 4 yards radius:- normally 70% of shots land within 2 yards, 25% land 2-3 yards away and 5% land 3-4 yards away. VEM could alter those percentages without changing the 4 yard circle of deviation ie without changing the properties of the equipment you have less chance of getting near the pin.

    Also the wind - maybe VEM can change the way the ball reacts to the wind or even the accuracy of the wind indicator that is displayed on screen.  Ditto for the accuracy of the dots on the green or the way the slope affects the putt.

    WGT are never going to give us the exact details of how they calculate where the ball ends up and that's understandable so I guess we have to try not to get too frustrated when it doesn't end up where we think it should.

  • andyson
    6,415 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 10:22 AM

    ^^^^Ffudd's got it!  Plenty of other parameters, thresholds, and distributions to change and alter performance of the game without changing club properties.

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 10:26 AM

    Awesome answer, Andyson. Thanks.

    Ffudd:
    WGT are never going to give us the exact details of how they calculate where the ball ends up and that's understandable so I guess we have to try not to get too frustrated when it doesn't end up where we think it should.

    I don't think you're tin foiling at all. This game works because it's a numbers game and you can do some serious stuff just by manipulating them. I don't believe WGT actually does this, rather the VEM does. They just control the intensity and now it appears can do it on a round by round basis within those rounds.

    Not that they would, mind you.  ;-)

  • overtheedge
    5,878 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 11:34 AM

    YankeeJim:
    This game works because it's a numbers game and you can do some serious stuff just by manipulating them.

    Nooooo! REALLYYYYYYYYYYYYY,,,LOL. I just couldn't resist. All in fun.

  • couldofbeenpga
    47 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 12:26 PM

    No, VEM is a crucial system within WGT. I can understand the confusion surrounding this subject, so I sat down with the CEO (and owner of the patent) and he helped me decipher the legalese so that I may share it with you.

    Essentially, the patent is for legal protection. It does give us the right to change the properties of clubs and balls, which we do often, but mainly it is for protecting the legal side of WGT. Whenever we exercise our right to change clubs and/or balls given to us by this patent, we do so unilaterally, and we tell the community about it. The only reasons we would do this is for balancing or bug correcting purposes.

    Now, back to the question that keeps coming up "Does WGT have the capability to manipulate individual player's equipment?" The answer is yes, we have the capability to do nearly anything to anyone, any course, any time, anywhere. The next question you should ask is "Does the video game I play operate in such an underhanded way that they would practice this capability?"

    The reason I say "the video game I play" and not "WGT" is because I want to make the point that similar companies has similar capabilities to manipulate the environment they produce.  Think of any other similar online game you have played. Did you trust them to operate honestly? To provide a level playing field for all players? If you did, I assume you stuck around a while. If you didn't, then I wouldn't blame you for spending your recreational time elsewhere.

    This is essentially what this question boils down to - yes, WGT has the power to manipulate the environment and/or clubs and balls they produce. Do you believe us when we say that we don't do so in an individual, unknown, shady deal but rather in a public, across the board manner that affects every player the exact same way? This is for the consumer to decide. We give you our word that we do not abuse the power of VEM, nor do we give our players the capability to do so. What you do with this information is your choice.

    I am certain there will still be "conspiracy theorists" out there who believe otherwise, and that is expected and perfectly acceptable. The only problem is when these theories are stated as facts. When someone passionately devotes so much time and effort into mastering a game, it is inevitable that at certain times they will fail when they feel the opposite outcome should have happened. The natural reaction that humans come to when they think they have all their bases covered but still fail is transference.

    I hope I was able to address all of your concerns and that I explained myself thoroughly. As always, my door is open, so feel free to send me a personal message or respond here with any questions :)

     WGTPizza  why did'nt you just answer with this 8 pages ago ??????  would of saved alot of typing for alot of people. We all knew the answer ! If you want the masses to TRUST you (WGT) maybe answer the questions with a factual answers,they go along way in earning peoples trust. 

    just my opinion

  • WGTpizza
    1,656 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 1:08 PM

    couldofbeenpga:
    WGTPizza  why did'nt you just answer with this 8 pages ago ??????

    As I said in the passage you quoted:

    couldofbeenpga:
    so I sat down with the CEO (and owner of the patent) and he helped me decipher the legalese so that I may share it with you.

    I don't have the CEO waiting for me to talk to him. He is a very busy man, and fortunately he cares enough about the community to stop what he was doing and explain this situation that I was not clear on.

    I promise I got the answers as soon as I could, and I hope these "factual answers" have earned some trust :)

     

    Stay classy,

    -WGTpizza

  • TWOMINUSONE
    2,580 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 3:51 PM

    WGTpizza:

    I don't have the CEO waiting for me to talk to him. He is a very busy man, and fortunately he cares enough about the community to stop what he was doing and explain this situation that I was not clear on.

    I promise I got the answers as soon as I could, and I hope these "factual answers" have earned some trust :)

     

    Stay classy,

    -WGTpizza

    Trust? Maybe. Respect...No. 

    Im sorry Pizza, but Slippery Eels and all that stuff.

    Just my opinion.

  • TWOMINUSONE
    2,580 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 5:06 PM

    BTW, ban my ass if you want. Your deliberate ignorance of my post earlier tells me that you have no regard for the normal Joe soap who PAYS to play the game we all love. This in itself tells me that you dont give a toss for us joe regulars. This post will probably get me banned from the forums, as WGT dont like it put up to them, as has been seen in the past.

    Maybe i am looking for it, but you would be doing me a favour in that i need the kick in the *** to get of this crap.

    Do i sound angry Pizza? you bet your ass im angry. Freedom of speech is a big thing in the USA, and if its not worth pointing out what you think is right, then whats the point? 

  • overtheedge
    5,878 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 5:43 PM

    TWOMINUSONE:
    BTW, ban my ass if you want. Your deliberate ignorance of my post earlier tells me that you have no regard for the normal Joe soap who PAYS to play the game we all love.

    Wooooooe, TWO. What happen man. This thread is so right on with a lot of very clear information. I truly hope they do not ban you. You had some of the more reasonable replies and always have a positive input. 

    This has been a great thread with some refreshing information. Thanks again WGT for opening the books so to speak. 

  • TWOMINUSONE
    2,580 Posts
    Sat, Oct 13 2012 6:24 PM

    Thanks OverTheEdge, but i feel i have been made a scapegoat for some of the stuff that has gone up here. I tried my best to put out a decent question about what we all knew was possible all along. Yes, the information is clear, but only to a certain degree. 

    I feel strongly that Pizza has disregarded my approach to this, and in the long run has ignored me in my earlier post about what Pizza himself has stated as being probably true.  All i want is some recognition that what i said earlier is probably true. Pizza must have read what i said earlier, because his response was to a post that  came after the post i made.

    This to me is a deliberate ignorance of the post  i made, or at least, an  attempt to try and ignore what i said. 

    I told Pizza in a private message that i did not want to stir it, basically, but would you put up with someone who deliberately steps over your toes to butter somebody else up? 

    Butter somebody up... This means to appease somebody who you are looking to impress, or simply to take the piss out off. 

     

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