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Just an extemporaneous thought...

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 12:28 PM

  DodgyPutter:

  Jeez, we are allowed different opinions without a constant battering over the same points, as Yiannis seems to have had enough allow me. 

  kavvz:

  I didn't think mags would mind me pointing out that he uses a calculator to play and to draw comparisons to others that do mathematical things to calculate shots.  If mags minds then there's endless other players who pop up windows calc on their screens that I could use, but I thought since he's one of the best on here he was the perfect example.

  You make it sound like the way Mags usues a calculator is similar to how others use a spreadsheet, I don't think it is.  I just watched his "Father's Day Skytrak Challenge winning 52" perhaps you could do the same and tell me on which shots it was in use.

  The 18 holes took 22min 30sec. I watched another prominent player take roughly the same time for 9, he was typing into a spreadsheet on another computer and using an on screen calculator.

  I'm guessing you are referring to streamed rounds when he is playing someone else.  This is a guess, I've about as little idea as you, I'd say he uses the calculator for something to do and to keep focus when his opponent is playing especially when a 90sec clock is insited upon.  Even with 45sec it's probably hard for him to keep his rhythm.

  It's ok to use the aid of the aim box to aim because that's just "feel", but it's not ok to make a ruler that has 10 markers equal to the width of that aimer box and use that to aim?   Those rulers ruin the game...

  The aim box is part of the game the rulers are a tool some add to the game screen, that's a difference. 

  kavvz:

  One more...

  It's ok to approximate ("feel"?) a wind direction with your eye and input that into a calculator to adjust your shot (which I suspect mags does on that casio), but it's not ok to use a compass to get the exact wind direction, input that into a spreadsheet to adjust your shot.

  Why do you suspect Mags does that on his casio, anything evidential or just completely you making it up?  Anyway, once again the former is using the game screen as wgt give us it and the other is adding to (altering) it.

  kavvz:

  We begin to see a pattern...

  "We" being?

  kavvz:

  Aids are simply shortcuts to do the same thing one of the best players on here does.  No different..that mags does it so well is a testament to him.   Even if mags' calcs are off a bit, he's such a good putter he makes up for it.

  Why is it that the people using these "shortcuts" are generally the ones that insist on longer clocks and take longer to play?  They are used simply to help people play the game better than they otherwise would, as you seem to aknowledge by calling them "aids".

  I haven't seen anyone here suggesting that any of this is breaking the rules, some have suggested it lessens the game in their opinion and you seem to take badly to that.  You have a different opinion then fine. 

  I'm battering the same points because y'all don't seem to want to acknowledge that they make sense.  Can you honestly see a difference between the ruler and the aimer box except that someone has made the ruler separate from the game?  Is the end result not the same in each case?  Honestly, I can't understand people who complain about players aiming with on screen rulers and then turn around and use that aimer box to aim.  Lol   For the record, I don't use a ruler.  

  RE: the time it takes mags to play with the calculator.  I'm just as fast with my spreadsheet -- in fact if I didn't tell you that I use one, you wouldn't know it.  

  I suspect mags does a wind calculation on his casio because he's so precise.  Now...I can freely admit that he might not or he might use it as a confirmation of what his experience is telling him to hit, but all I'm trying to say is the best player on here does some "calculating".  Whatever he's working out isn't truly "feel"ing the shot simply b/c he's working out "something". 

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 2:14 PM

  kavvz:

  I'm battering the same points because y'all don't seem to want to acknowledge that they make sense.

  Lol they do to you, can you not see that exactly the same is true for others and what they say? This is about how people think the game would be best, some think with these "aids" some without, nobody is saying anyone is doing anything wrong. That means there isn't a right and wrong answer, just personal preferences. 

  I really don't think WGT would ever (even try to) ban this stuff, too many players would get worse overnight and stop playing.

  kavvz:

  Can you honestly see a difference between the ruler and the aimer box except that someone has made the ruler separate from the game?

  The except is the difference, although I would add ....and put it onto the game screen.  The aim box is provided by wgt so is part of the game. 

  kavvz:

  I suspect mags does a wind calculation on his casio because he's so precise.  Now...I can freely admit that he might not or he might use it as a confirmation of what his experience is telling him to hit, but all I'm trying to say is the best player on here does some "calculating".  Whatever he's working out isn't truly "feel"ing the shot simply b/c he's working out "something".

  I'd reckon Mags has everything worked out precisely but that still doesn't mean he uses his calculator every shot or that it would matter if he did.

  I suppose you could say it's not possible to play any computer game by feel, even if it's the first attempt you'll be working out what's most likely to work.  How you get that sort of stuff to be comparible to a spreadsheet is beyond me.

  All I really know is I've watched lots of the top players and seeing Mags play gives me the impression of someone playing unaided and I can't think of any of the others I'd say that about. There may well be some others that I've not watched.

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 3:02 PM

  DodgyPutter:

  kavvz:

  I'm battering the same points because y'all don't seem to want to acknowledge that they make sense.

  Lol they do to you, can you not see that exactly the same is true for others and what they say? This is about how people think the game would be best, some think with these "aids" some without, nobody is saying anyone is doing anything wrong. That means there isn't a right and wrong answer, just personal preferences. 

  Yes I can see that, and agreed.  I understand you/others have a personal preference, I just don't understand why.  Lol  ;) 

  DodgyPutter:

  kavvz:

  Can you honestly see a difference between the ruler and the aimer box except that someone has made the ruler separate from the game?

  The except is the difference, although I would add ....and put it onto the game screen.  The aim box is provided by wgt so is part of the game. 

  So...that means that the windows calculator is an "aid" since it's not part of the game correct? 

  :edit: noteworthy is that OP and Yiannis have yet to answer this simple question.

• Yiannis1970 3,270 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 3:14 PM

  BOZskills:

  Yiannis,ever hear of hand eye coordination? That is where any individual player can overcome any equipment deficit,that's physical talent! That's why the auto dinger is cheating!! Spread sheets are not even close(ps i play by feel!!!).

   

  Of course they are and i will (try) to explain why...

  It is obvious why autodinger is cheatin, but there's more than that. When you play an important round and you know that you have to hit a great score to win, your adrenaline levels rise. This probably means that you 'll have some misdings too, which could be ''fatal'' for your round.

  Now...

  Adrenaline is not only affecting your reflexes, it affects everything. Imagine now a player who uses spreadsheets against another who does not. Adrenaline can't affect the first player who simply reads what to hit, meanwhile can affect the second player who's operating a mental process before the stroke. In other words, the first player using ready spreadsheets eliminates a side effect of adrenaline high levels. He gains an advantage.

   

• Yiannis1970 3,270 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 3:22 PM

  kavvz:

  Yiannis1970:

  It's always the same story. Whenever we try to discuss about something....oops, there's mags in the middle!!

  Did i make any names? NO

  So, what Christopher has to do with this? Are you talking on his behalf? I don't think so..

  For the record i will respond though..no, i don't think fmagnets destroyed this game, not even close.

  As for the rest, i hate repeating myself. Have already posted what i think. Just do a trouble and read it again if you like.

  I didn't think mags would mind me pointing out that he uses a calculator to play and to draw comparisons to others that do mathematical things to calculate shots.  If mags minds then there's endless other players who pop up windows calc on their screens that I could use, but I thought since he's one of the best on here he was the perfect example.  

  That you didn't mention any names is relevant how?  

  OP wouldn't answer this question, but maybe you will.  Do you consider a calculator an aid? 

  If mags didn't destroy the game (like you say), but he still calculates his shots what gives?  

  Is it ok to type numbers into a calculator to get an answer, but you've ruined the game if you type numbers into a spreadsheet to get an answer.  

  Continuing..

  It's ok to use the aid of the aim box to aim because that's just "feel", but it's not ok to make a ruler that has 10 markers equal to the width of that aimer box and use that to aim?   Those rulers ruin the game...

  One more...

  It's ok to approximate ("feel"?) a wind direction with your eye and input that into a calculator to adjust your shot (which I suspect mags does on that casio), but it's not ok to use a compass to get the exact wind direction, input that into a spreadsheet to adjust your shot.

  We begin to see a pattern...

  Aids are simply shortcuts to do the same thing one of the best players on here does.  No different..that mags does it so well is a testament to him.   Even if mags' calcs are off a bit, he's such a good putter he makes up for it.

   

   

  Excel sheets of various players, do not contain only distances which can be provided by a simple use of a calculator. As i was expecting, you have absolutely no idea what are you talking about.

   

• Yiannis1970 3,270 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 3:39 PM

  kavvz:

  Yes I can see that, and agreed.  I understand you/others have a personal preference, I just don't understand why.  Lol  ;) 

   

  I have only one question:

  Since using spreadsheets and playing without is more or less the same, hear this:

   

  On real golf if you ask your caddie for a stroke advise it's perfectly ok.

  If you got the same advise from anyone else in the field you got a penalty.

  Why?

   

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 4:07 PM

  Yiannis1970:

  kavvz:

  Yes I can see that, and agreed.  I understand you/others have a personal preference, I just don't understand why.  Lol  ;) 

   

  I have only one question:

  Since using spreadsheets and playing without is more or less the same, hear this:

   

  On real golf if you ask your caddie for a stroke advise it's perfectly ok.

  If you got the same advise from anyone else in the field you got a penalty.

  Why?

   

  I'm sorry, are we playing real golf?  Do the same rules apply here? 

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 4:08 PM

  Yiannis1970:

  Excel sheets of various players, do not contain only distances which can be provided by a simple use of a calculator. As i was expecting, you have absolutely no idea what are you talking about.

  Hmmm, so these excel sheets you speak of.

  Do they contain cheats? 

  Or do they contain more complex calculations/factors beyond simple math? 

• Yiannis1970 3,270 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 4:20 PM

  kavvz:

  Yiannis1970:

  kavvz:

  Yes I can see that, and agreed.  I understand you/others have a personal preference, I just don't understand why.  Lol  ;) 

   

  I have only one question:

  Since using spreadsheets and playing without is more or less the same, hear this:

   

  On real golf if you ask your caddie for a stroke advise it's perfectly ok.

  If you got the same advise from anyone else in the field you got a penalty.

  Why?

   

  I'm sorry, are we playing real golf?  Do the same rules apply here? 

   

  It was such a hard question so to be answered with another one?

   

  I asked you: Why for exactly the same behavior one gets punished and the other one is not. 

   

   

• kavvz 2,195 Posts

  Sun, Jul 21 2019 5:37 PM

  Yiannis1970:

  It was such a hard question so to be answered with another one?

  I asked you: Why for exactly the same behavior one gets punished and the other one is not. 

  Yiannis, you're not really one to answer questions posed of you, but you expect others to answer yours?