Forums

WGT needs to stop the cheats

• Robert1893 7,666 Posts

  Sun, Mar 3 2019 11:42 AM

  LennySkynyrd:

  I wanted to send him a message. You know, to congratulate him on his performance. Unfortunately, he and his 7 friends all have their "Send Message" icon turned off/disconnected (not looking to stir up a bunch of comments on this topic).

  I understand that you don't want a lot of comments on this, but as mbcarp99 notes above, you can only send messages to friends. So that player doesn't have anything turned off or disconnected. Any player who is not on your friends' list would look the same. 
  
  You could, however, post something to the player's wall. You don't have to be a friend to do that.

• LennySkynyrd 21 Posts

  Sun, Mar 3 2019 7:53 PM

  Yeah. I probably should have kept the message thing out of this...and stayed on topic. Which was how a fellow could shoot 55 in a Bracket Challenge after being a member for only 90+ days. 

  Trust me R1893, if you (and/or readers of this thread) had posted the 55 (-17), man, I would have tipped my hat and paid my respects. Everyday...and twice on Sunday. For your collective credentials speak for themselves. But someone whose been a member for 90 days? The stench isn't pungently obvious? Perhaps lighting in a bottle? I'll give you that...if it were not for the fact that over the same time period, said member already has $350 plus in career earnings as well. Gotta be the fastest learning curve I've ever witnessed. Pounding members by 3-5 strokes who have been swinging it for 8, 9, 10 years (per the bracket results)? Come on now. Let's call that what it is. Sandbag City. Guess I'll go back to the comforts of match and skins for cheddar against legit friends. It's all good. 

• Robert1893 7,666 Posts

  Mon, Mar 4 2019 8:27 AM

  @LennySkynyrd
  
  Hey, I hear ya. And I absolutely agree with you. The guy definitely looks like either a multi account or a restart. In the first 90 days, I don't think I even got my first eagle. ;-)  
  
  In fact, I know that my first sub-30 round (28 on St. Andrews, back 9) was right around 90 days). But that wasn't from the tips. That score was from the master-tier tees. After I hit Legend, it took me another 2.5 months before I hit another sub-30 round for 9. 

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Mon, Mar 4 2019 8:48 AM

  LennySkynyrd:

  Come on now.

  I would agree with you... while stats can be hard to decipher at times. 

  This is what stands out to me... finishing in the top 10 over 50 % of the time...  I checked a top player who recently shot one of the best rounds ever on WC and his top 10 win % is under 40%....

  If WGT is paying attention and following I believe they have intervened and promoted players before... but it can be tough to investigate because this account appears to be mobile based so connecting it to a specific IP address may be harder to connect it with a  multi account.  I don't know for certain.

  Stroke Play Tournaments Entered	129
  Stroke Play Top 10 Finishes	66

• JimmyLuv58 1 Posts

  Tue, Mar 5 2019 12:22 PM

  This game is populated by cheaters. You cat play and report to WGT with a screen shot, though it is likely they will do nothing. I have sent dozens of examples to them of obvious cheats like hacks who shoot -3. with generous gimmes The  "game pausing" cheats are the worst, They hope you just give up and sacrifice coins  even though you may have actually won.  Chat your opponent. Call them out. Often times they quit. Write a review, Most importantly, don't spend any money!!! It's the only leverage you have. Eventually, they will just playing each other.

   

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Tue, Mar 5 2019 3:28 PM

  el3n1:

  This is what stands out to me... finishing in the top 10 over 50 % of the time...  I checked a top player who recently shot one of the best rounds ever on WC and his top 10 win % is under 40%....

  I don't know the answer to this but do brackets count as "tournaments" in the stat's? Lets saya player that plays the vast majority of his rounds in brackets and has 276 rr's, 129 tournaments entered with a touch over 50% top 10 finishes.   Does that mean he's going out in the first round almost half the time and one win gives a top 10 finish?

  He really is a strange mixture, a couple of 200c  Legend rg's recently bop5 (83) and PB (68) finishing outside the top 30 in both.  The 55 was followed by a par 3 48 bracket first round and he lost by 3.  Still his bracket scores are very good for how long he's been playing.  Overall quite inconsistent although better lately, maybe an equipment upgrade made the difference.

  I'm certainly not disagreeing with anyone who says he's a multi or a restart, the learning curve still seems too steep.

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Tue, Mar 5 2019 4:13 PM

  DodgyPutter:

  do brackets count as "tournaments" in the stat's?

  That is something I don't know, but may be a subtle factor that could manipulate one's tournament stats.  If essentially all 4 tournament rounds played in the bracket, except a loss in the first round, effectively qualify as a  top 10 finish and thus increase one's top 10 winning % it would clearly alter one's stats for a bracket player...

  So many factors, but it might explain what appears to be a very high top 10 win %.  

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Wed, Mar 6 2019 4:11 AM

  You were right that "stats can be hard to decipher at times".

  Another question if you are using tournament win % would be, do CC tournaments count?  If they do then 10th out of 12 may look good in the % but could be achieved with any score.  I didn't mean that to refer to the current player but in general.

  Even if neither count you were probably comparing a player playing mainly in tournaments for the top players to one who's stat's come mainly from TM and below competitions.

  Sorry, I just don't like the stat's we are given being used as comparisons.  Someone (Robert I think but I could be wrong) was saying in another thread to look at the par 3,4 and 5 averages as a guide to ability and thinking about this I thought what a poor guide they actually are unless you're really careful.

  The number of rounds involved would be vital as more should (hopefully) lower the numbers.  The equipment journey we take, some don't upgrade much for a very long time others as soon as they can and many times.  What we play; If I scored 67 on uel in high wind at PH and 60 in low wind at BB I'd be happier with the former but my stat's wouldn't. That's even before we go to red tee.  Many more factors too.

  I didn't say anything there as the overall point being made was fair enough and it was prefaced with something like "at least", sorry for going a bit off subject with it here it's just... damn stat's! 

  Back to the player, I'm puzzled, if you were to look only at the recent rg's (and you'd have to assume 200c rg's aren't a smokescreen) then you'd think no problem (I think he was a total of about 20 shots behind you in the two).  I was tempted to think the 55 was just a round where everything went right but there are others (71 bop 5, 57 BB etc etc) that I am surprised to see after 3 months and less than 300 rounds.

  My guess would be a multi but only someone about my standard, rather than a top player looking to sweep up.  Of course there's no proof of any cheating so I could see how it's pretty hard for wgt to do anything on what we see, hopefully they see more.

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Wed, Mar 6 2019 7:18 AM

  I am not trying to be defensive here, but offer insight into why my "radar" goes off sometimes when I observe some things, which lead me to look at a player's stats.

  DodgyPutter:

  (and you'd have to assume 200c rg's aren't a smokescreen) then you'd think no problem (I think he was a total of about 20 shots behind you in the two). 

  I believe you are referring to me, if you are discussing Legend tier RG's.  Now, I didn't know this at the time, because I was hoping to improve my play in heavy wind conditions and the faster greens when I decided to start playing in WGT VT, which still kicked my butt even after I had been playing WGT for 9 months.   Months later, when I eventually started to test the Legend tier RG's they appear to be almost exclusively Heavy Winds at the moment.  

  After my first VT round (over a year ago closer to 15 months now) I began to start focusing on heavy wind and champ green conditions to improve in order to become more competitive in the VT.  A fellow TPC member encouraged me to face the challenging conditions as well.  Now, I researched the game, found tips, and worked at playing those conditions once I started to see them and then for the next 6 months or more and didn't start to get more consistent until after a year of playing them...

  So, when I see players pop up regularly shooting low scores in Legend tier heavy wind champ green conditions, which are the toughest conditions we will see .. after relatively few ranked rounds... it does raise red flags... because I know this game is not that easy and can't just be figured out without some degree of a learning curve. 

  It suggest does not prove  (that is where WGT comes in) prior knowledge (multi acct) or a great deal of help and assistance, or cheating in some way.   But when someone displays a relatively high level of proficiency after what appears limited play … it has drawn me in to begin looking at "stats" that may stand out.  Not because stat's are perfect, but they can sometimes offer a deeper glimpse into the player along with reviewing other factors.  But we know, they (stats) are not in and of themselves perfect.  

   

• Robert1893 7,666 Posts

  Wed, Mar 6 2019 7:33 AM

  DodgyPutter:

  Another question if you are using tournament win % would be, do CC tournaments count?  If they do then 10th out of 12 may look good in the % but could be achieved with any score.  I didn't mean that to refer to the current player but in general.

  CC tournaments only count for number of tournaments entered. Placement in those tournaments, however, are not recorded in stats. What that means is if someone enters a lot of CC tournaments, their top 10 and top 100 percentages will be diluted and not enhanced.  

   

  DodgyPutter:

  Sorry, I just don't like the stat's we are given being used as comparisons.  Someone (Robert I think but I could be wrong) was saying in another thread to look at the par 3,4 and 5 averages as a guide to ability and thinking about this I thought what a poor guide they actually are unless you're really careful.

  That is not what I wrote. If you're going to refer to one of my posts, I would appreciate it if you would get it correct. 
  
  I was responding to a player who said he had a better average than another player. That player was only looking at the current average and didn't consider how averages are calculated.
  
  I wrote, "And second, as you compare averages, you should also (at a minimum) look at scoring average by hole (i.e. par 3, par 4, and par 5), which is found under the stats tab" [emphasis added].  
  
  In other words, I said that when comparing averages, at a minimum, one should look at these other scores. I did not write or suggest that looking at par 3, 4, and 5 average is "a guide to ability." And to emphasize the point, I stated that one should look at those scores as a minimum start. Obviously, to get a complete picture of a player's average, one would want to look at a lot more. 
  
  I should think including the phrase "at a minimum" was a sufficient qualifier. But I guess not.