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Redwood feedback.

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Wed, Jul 28 2010 9:43 AM

  This is directed specifically at those players that use Nivlac's putting method, the avatar moves, with the Redwood. I don't mean to preclude those that don't but my question is concerning the distance values for the moves on each scale for this particular putter.

  When the Opens came out and the Tournament speeds were introduced the resulting change in the values was easy enough to figure out. Now that we're back to Very Fast greens the values I used before the Opens is no longer accurate. Something changed and that is what I am soliciting here. How did your values change, if they did at all?

  There is no question these values have changed. I have been using 8 8 12 16 20 35 religiously for a very long time. Now I'm coming up short very consistently using them. It isn't causing a great big problem, just a little re-learning. The Tournament speeds, oddly enough, enhanced my own ability to read putts from the front view based on instincts. (I think OaktheToke used to do it this way with good success.) That's an aiming function anyway but the values still need to be accurate for the strength of swing.

  Has anybody encountered this and what do you use if you did?

  TY

• neildiamond11790 1,115 Posts

  Wed, Jul 28 2010 10:37 AM

  Sorry I cant help, but I can support what you said.  I use the Daytona and have noticed the very fast greens have slowed.  I play an extra 1-2ft per putt, and play the exact distance with 1-2 inches downhill.  I rolled a 7ft putt short yesterday with 8.5ft of speed estimated and came up inches short and it wasn't like the first 3 ft were up an inch and then last ft down an inch either (making it appear a flat putt).

• b0geybuster 2,574 Posts

  Wed, Jul 28 2010 10:38 AM

  I also use the daytona and my putts on very fast have been coming up short as well, same method, different results!  Needing to add 1-2 ft.  

  Cheers

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Wed, Jul 28 2010 11:10 AM

  neildiamond11790:

  I rolled a 7ft putt short yesterday with 8.5ft of speed estimated and came up inches short and it wasn't like the first 3 ft were up an inch and then last ft down an inch either (making it appear a flat putt).

  You did help, Neil. Thanks because your scenario is exactly what I'm talking about. I just wondered if anybody had done the math yet. :-)

• mefitz 372 Posts

  Wed, Jul 28 2010 11:53 AM

  YankeeJim:

  Something changed and that is what I am soliciting here. How did your values change, if they did at all?

    I`ve been expecting this post for a long time. Sorry, but I always putt by feel. Never could wrap my head around Nivlac`s method...But.

    About the second week into the qualifiers I noticed a change...including the Tour. green speed. It was subtle but maybe less so than other tweaks that have been made and weren`t noticed. My memory wants me to believe that "very fast" was toned down a little before Oakmont`s release. Only WGT can verify or deny that now.

    What it boils down to for me is, "very fast" is basically what the default green speed was before there was an option, ie. on a flat read, add 1-2ft and adjust to slope and/or break after that.

    I`m still surprised no one has said anything before this, but then again...neither did I ;). Hope this helps.

• Johniedino 786 Posts

  Wed, Jul 28 2010 12:23 PM

  Back on the 12th of July there was a post about drives being shorter. In it wgt stated that they did not make adjustments on the clubs in regards to distances but that they"firmed up the fairways and greens" just before the open qualifiers. Now they prolly softened them abit. ;-))

  J

   

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Wed, Jul 28 2010 1:06 PM

  mefitz:

  It was subtle but maybe less so than other tweaks that have been made and weren`t noticed. My memory wants me to believe that "very fast" was toned down a little before Oakmont`s release.

  Bingo!  This is exactly the way I was thinking, mefitz, and I believe you are correct. If I remember correctly the change Johnie refers to also prompted a bunch of posts about lip outs and just-misses in putting. Beginning to makes sense now and I rather like the subtle nature of the change.

  I went for the Master Redwood this morning and this thread is going to help fine tune it. 

  TYVM

   

• mefitz 372 Posts

  Wed, Jul 28 2010 6:05 PM

    Glad I could help. I also enjoy the subtle changes but I`m a little bummed out that the speeds are slowed rather than sped up. I can visualize the faster putts easier and had a ball learning the tournament greens speed.

    I`ll be curious to see the reviews about the Master putter after a few weeks of play. Mainly if the performance will justify the price ;-)...Ouch! I know it`s not as much as a real putter but relative to the other clubs sold here I feel it`s a little over the top. GL and please post a review when you`ve tested it.

• dorkfeatures 712 Posts

  Wed, Jul 28 2010 10:39 PM

  Hi Yankee,

  Just for your info - I dont use that method for putting, but going back to very fast greens after weeks on tournament speeds ... NOTHING had changed for me. Still the same values as  I previously used. I am now having to relearn the breaks though lol

  Probably no help to you Jim - sorry.

  Just thought you might like to know.

  Cheers

  Doug

• TheZiggy 550 Posts

  Thu, Jul 29 2010 9:45 AM

  I don't use the same method as you, and I'm using the Daytona, however, I thought I was just imagining things when I started to leave a lot more putts shorter in the last few days than I ever have before.