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'Tough-It-Out': The Trans-Atlantic Starter Clubs Uneven Open

Mon, Nov 12 2012 1:35 PM (333 replies)
  • SPINO1
    5,394 Posts
    Sat, Nov 3 2012 2:29 AM

    TeeWade:
     I've had a small family situation that has taken my time recently. Apologies if I've held up anyone. I'm available and ready tomorrow evening Stu if you have the time bud.

    Hope all is ok with the family stuff Tim ...

    ill be on here saturday night(today) my time from  715pm bud , hope to catch you.And hope to get this wrapped!

     

  • Hanswurst72
    1,097 Posts
    Sat, Nov 3 2012 4:22 PM

    Every score that is shown for the average distance to the pin at the end of the round is legal, fair and absolutely fine with me. 0 is also a number. It was not stated clearly, so I will not have the slightest problem with anyone winning this award due to good tactics. Best of luck Stu!

    Cheers, Hans

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Sat, Nov 3 2012 5:57 PM

    Hanswurst72:
    Every score that is shown for the average distance to the pin at the end of the round is legal, fair and absolutely fine with me.

    Hans, I know you're being very generous, but I have to disagree with your statement. 

    The Ave. Distance to the Pin statistic does not kick in until you've had your first non-par3 GIR. It doesn't exist without one GIR (for a non par3 hole). So, I don't believe '0' is intended to be, or should count as, a real score for Ave. Distance to the Pin.

    Hanswurst72:
    0 is also a number.

    It's only showing '0' instead of the more appropriate 'N/A', just as several of the other stats show '0' until you get the first one of them.

    I've no problem with Stu winning this award through good tactics (indeed I've been encouraging him to "try for it" from the beginning!), but to get a legitimate Ave. Distance to the Pin score for this round, he will need to hit at least 1 par 4 or par 5 green in regulation (unless he holes his GIR approach shot, which he can verify through a replay if needed).

    Hope that's clear to everyone.

    Thanks, Corwyn

  • SPINO1
    5,394 Posts
    Sun, Nov 4 2012 1:40 AM

    Still looking to get the round in atm, no sign of my mate TEE....

    Ill be on and off today from noon untill 6pm and back on tonight from 9pm for a couple of hours.if anyone fancies it lol....

    if i cant get it done today then i will pull out to save the agro !

    cheers

    stu

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Sun, Nov 4 2012 11:43 AM

    Can anyone mark for Stu today? It would be great if he could get his round in. If my calculations are right, he'll be on for a couple of hours in 1 1/4 hours from now.
    (I could play from 9:30-midnight window tonight  Pacific Time, but I doubt that will work for Stu in the UK) 

    FYI everyone: Colm (cmdking) sent me a message this morning urging that we wrap up the tourney. He still has family in town, and will also have a busy work week to catch up, so does not foresee a time when he can get his final round in. I think this time we'll have to accept his withdrawal, extremely reluctantly.

    So, that means, with Stu committing to play today or withdraw, that we should be able to wrap everything up tomorrow.

    Thanks for your patience, everyone!

  • Hanswurst72
    1,097 Posts
    Sun, Nov 4 2012 12:11 PM

    I just played the front 9 with Stu, loading times got a bit out of control, so we couldn't play the back 9 anymore. Will probably be finished tomorrow. His tactics concerning the greens hit strategy didn't come off because of very unlucky leaves at the easy holes just next to the greens and not on them... therefor his only hit green was #9 with 44.2ft, but if he hits several greens on the back9, that might still be good enough in total calculation. I played a very nice front9, that should replace the one I scored... lol. Here are the screenshots:

    Cheers, Hans

  • SPINO1
    5,394 Posts
    Mon, Nov 5 2012 1:57 PM

    Thanks for your time Hans,

    Guys ,im going to pull out and conceed im afraid,

    id like to thank you for you efforts in this comp,and  look forward to the day that un- evens are banned rolled out across the board.

    Good luck to you all.

    stu

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Mon, Nov 5 2012 2:16 PM

    SPINO1:

    Thanks for your time Hans,

    Guys ,im going to pull out and conceed im afraid,

    id like to thank you for you efforts in this comp,and  look forward to the day that un- evens are banned rolled out across the board.

    Good luck to you all.

    stu

    Oh Stu, I'm sorry to hear that. I was hoping you were going to pull it off. Even with just 2 close approaches on the back 9, you could have stolen it.

    Thanks for the appreciations, and for the unevens comment! I hope you'll be up for joining in the next time around.

    All the best, Corwyn

    P.S. And thanks too, Hans, for marking Stu for this Olympian quest! And congratulations on sweeping the board in our tourney.

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Mon, Nov 5 2012 3:55 PM

    Here are the FINAL STANDINGS for the Tourney:

    1st Place: Hanswurst72                             276     -6

    Tied for 2nd: Corwyn & Kurtsbuford       292     +10

    4th Place: CerinoDevoti                             293      +11

     

    Greens in Regulation prize: Hanswurst72     70.8%

    Closest to the Pin prize: Hanswurst72           21.7 ft


     

    Prizes:

    1st: Hanswurst72 (1,500 credits worth)

    Tied for 2nd: Corwyn & Kurtsbuford
    (they split the 2nd and 3rd prize combined: i.e. 750 credits worth each) 

    GIR prize: Hanswurst72 (750 credits worth, generously donated by MioKontic)

    Ave. Distance to the Pin Prize: Hanswurst72 (750 credits worth, generously donated by MioKontic)

  • Corwyn
    2,410 Posts
    Mon, Nov 5 2012 4:01 PM

    SOME REFLECTIONS ON THE TOURNEY:
     

    Participation:

    We started with 26 signups, with 23 players starting the tourney (from 13 different time zones!). We lost 2 after round 1, another 5 after round 2, and 5 more after round 3, finishing with 11 players playing all 4 rounds. 58% dropped out along the way after signup. Is it normal to only get about 42% completion for a tourney? 

    I can see that it would help to offer some other kind of prizes: e.g. Hans' suggestion of a random award amongst the finishers.

    What else could we have done to encourage people to stick with it?

    And, any ideas you can share on how to recruit more players in the first place?

    Player Pairings:

    Thank you everyone for your patience with the Time Availability Grid, and with the notion of trying to play in leaderboard pairings for the last couple of rounds. I think it worked well enough to want to try that approach again. 

    With the grid, I would modify it so that we were gathering everyone's playing hours in actual times, not the 'open to interpretation' "mornings, evenings etc", and ideally in their local time, using a calculation of their time zone to make everyone's show in relation to GMT (or UTC).

    Scoring:

    Hans' achievement is phenomenal. To shoot par or better on every round is hard to imagine: just pure class! He would still have won by 6 shots even if all the rest of us had put forward our best round at each course against his. Perhaps the truest indicator of his mastery of this format is that of his 18 birdies across the 4 rounds, only 5 were on par 3s. And we thought that going for a good GIR would be a trade-off against Closest to the Pin, but he's swept the board on both those prizes as well. 

    Hyena has already mentioned that he struggled to reproduce his practice scores in the real games, and I definitely found that to be the case for me too. I had 'marker' scores with others that were significantly better (-1 at RSG, -4 at St A's), but when the pressure was on I couldn't score as well.

    I found it interesting that bad starts to rounds seemed to help me focus on just grinding, which generally was the best way to score well. I got a huge slice of luck in my Olympic round, when after kicking off with 2 bogeys, I missed the ding right on my 3rd hole tee shot, and was mighty relieved to see it sail gently over the flagstick for a converted 9 ft birdie putt. A bit of luck and early bogeys seemed to force me to settle down. In other rounds, I found it very easy to go off the rails once things went awry.

    I think I went into the 2 U.S. courses expecting the toughest challenge, so the pressure was off to some extent. At the British courses, I knew I'd have to get some birdies, which made it harder when things went wrong.

    Anyone else want to share thoughts on how to score best in this format?

    The Courses:

    Any feedback on our choices of courses, and/or tees, wind, green conditions?

    If we do this again, would you like to see the other 3 courses used (Kiawah, Bethpage, Congressional), or some variants on what we just did (e.g. more wind, faster greens, or easier setups). I know some folks said that the Standard green speed at St. Andrews actually tripped them up more than anticipated.


    Uneven Lies:

    Did they get easier for you after the October update?

    I found it was possible to blast out of bunkers afterwards. Before I just had to play sideways, and take my medicine. In a sense, I think this 'improvement' weakens the gameplay: bunkers, especially those in majors, are supposed to be tough. 

    The distance loss on sidehill lies, and up and down too, also got reduced, which, especially playing with Starters, was not such a bad thing.

    Olympic was more manageable for an odd reason to me… Essentially, you always got the same side slope on the fairways, so it was possible to take notes and learn from each practice instance, knowing you'd have a similar shot next time.

    We may be the players on WGT who've played the most rounds with Uneven Lies over the past couple of months since it was introduced. I hope you will consider giving some feedback into some of the threads that have been started on it, and sharing your experiences. 

    For myself, I hope they don't water it down too much… I reckon it's ready to go, and about time it was "rolled-out" for some official tourneys.

    What Next?

    There was some feedback asking for a Knockout or Single Elimination tourney next (partly on the grounds that they'd only have to endure 1 round of torture!). If so, I'd think we'd still do it as Strokeplay knockout, since that's a lot of what's fascinating, to see how much better we're getting at getting close to par.

    What do you want to see as the next tourney?

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