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Re: Upper tier Putters!

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Thu, Dec 19 2019 3:17 PM by DoctorLarry. 21 replies.
  • DoctorLarry United States
    3,493 Posts
    Tue, Nov 12 2019 11:12 AM

    flatstick96:
    Point of all of that is to say: just because you don't love a putter immediately doesn't mean you won't eventually come around and fall in love with it once you're more familiar with it.  Next time there's a free rental weekend, try it again before you write it off completely.

    Totally agree.

    It also applies to any club, IMO.  Since we rarely change clubs to one that has the same characteristics as the one we have, you must take some time to adjust. 

    I think that is particularly true for putters since forgiveness can really affect ding or off-ding putting styles.

  • LostArkitekt United States
    2 Posts
    Wed, Nov 13 2019 11:12 AM

     

    I'm not as high level as you, but I bought a Spider putter that was "on paper" 3 times better than the starter putter.  However, and this isn't due to mishits, etc., it is AWFUL on distance.  The putt will say 6 ft with 0 inches up, and I'll hit it at 7.5 feet, and it still won't get there.  Then, sometimes, I'll hit it with the same scenario, and it will roll 2 ft past the hole.  I think WGT does this on purpose to make money.  I should be putting BETTER with a much better putter (on spec), but I have been putting worse.  Funny thing is that I go to the putting green, and I putt like a BAUS, but the distance control doesn't translate to the games, and I think this is in the program...so now that I just bought a putter, they want me to spend money on a better one.

  • borntobesting United States
    8,640 Posts
    Thu, Nov 14 2019 5:26 AM

    LostArkitekt:

     

    I'm not as high level as you, but I bought a Spider putter that was "on paper" 3 times better than the starter putter.  However, and this isn't due to mishits, etc., it is AWFUL on distance.  The putt will say 6 ft with 0 inches up, and I'll hit it at 7.5 feet, and it still won't get there.  Then, sometimes, I'll hit it with the same scenario, and it will roll 2 ft past the hole.  I think WGT does this on purpose to make money.  I should be putting BETTER with a much better putter (on spec), but I have been putting worse.  Funny thing is that I go to the putting green, and I putt like a BAUS, but the distance control doesn't translate to the games, and I think this is in the program...so now that I just bought a putter, they want me to spend money on a better one.

    No they don't do it to make money. The level 19 Spider was just a lousy putter. I don't know very many people who liked it. I hated it. There were plenty of other putters that were better in the game than they were on paper. I think the level 19 Spider was one of their first better putters. And the programming just didn't match the specs. You should have asked others about the Spider before buying it. Most of us would have said " DON'T WASTE YOUR CREDITS ON THAT PIECE OF CRAP! Sorry about the yelling but that is how much I hated it, 

  • LostArkitekt United States
    2 Posts
    Fri, Dec 13 2019 6:55 AM

    I think a lot of the programming is done to get you to buy new stuff...otherwise, it shouldn't matter.  If the "specs" listed are better than other putters, then it should perform better than other putters.  Should it perform as good as a "Level 50" putter...of course not, but it SHOULD perform up to spec.  For instance, I just hit two putts that were up 17" and 48 ft away and up 21" and 48 ft away.  The latter one, I hit it just past the 50 ft mark (barely) on the 100 ft putt scale.  The ball raced 10 ft past the hole...21" is a decent incline.  The former (17") up, I put it basically right on the 50 ft mark, and it didn't even make it to the hole.  NO putter should have that kind of control when it says it has better control than the free putter you started with...no matter how "bad" the putter is.

  • SlickHunter United States
    1,007 Posts
    Fri, Dec 13 2019 10:40 AM

    I’ve tried all the high end putters, and I still suck at it. It’s your ability to read putts, and less reliant on which putter.

  • DonCaron United States
    5,103 Posts
    Fri, Dec 13 2019 5:38 PM

    SlickHunter:

    I’ve tried all the high end putters, and I still suck at it. It’s your ability to read putts, and less reliant on which putter.

    Very True

  • Julius0007 United States
    41 Posts
    Fri, Dec 13 2019 10:35 PM

    This has become so misconstrued....when I first started this post it was to show the failure of wgt to be honest when advertising new equipment and not just throw out garbage for others to invest in without some kind of return.

    I did not in any way think that buying the level 98 scotty Cameron putter would make me a putting genius and greatly improve my game. I just wanted honesty in advertising....when I bought a driver or club that was advertised as longer distance or a slower meter or more accuracy....well guess what, I got a driver or club with longer distance, slower meter, or better accuracy. One of the reasons people upgrade is to get these better qualities. 

    My complaint was not to have a putter that makes me a great putter....I realize that reading greens is an art and a talent....however, when I bought and sold back this putter, it was because if anything, it had worse accuracy and no rhyme or reason on how the ball came off the putter. All I wanted was a putter that had a wee bit more accuracy when upgrading to one that is high priced  and advertised with better stats. I dont want to be given a putt....you have to earn them, but to false advertise just ticked me off....example....I use a level 74 driver that has a distance of 280....and the level 99 driver goes 289....9 yards further....that's why we upgrade, to improve certain qualities....and it's the same in golf balls....you all who use the good titleist, didnt buy it for average distance....it was advertised with longer distance and better ball stats....that's what you pay for and what you get in return.

    My main complaint was strictly that wgt needs to back up what they put out on the market. They work hard and do a great job....I just feel this was a big shortcoming for them and the consumer is somewhat deceived for their profit!

  • goldeena Thailand
    1,946 Posts
    Sat, Dec 14 2019 12:43 PM

    The level 98 Phantom X is absolutely rapier, deadly-fantastic and anyone saying it otherwise is probably not qualified to use it, because they just don't have either the 'eye-in' or the tools to see properly, but when you can see then you will know.

     

    If you can't perform at a high enough level you won't see any of the extra welly it has anyway - a farmer can drive a tractor but you wouldn't put him in an F1 race-car to show him the added benefits of handling and performance would you? And that is a very good analogy - it's for advanced players eeking out every extra ounce of performance, not some middle-laner doing 50mph, you already have to be straining the equipment you have to its very limit to justify buying it, otherwise - no point.

    What people may be experiencing is the 'warming up' period of any new piece of equipment - this is due to the way VEM operates, there is a module that adapts to user performance, and with any new piece of equipment it will need a gestation period to come up to speed with your true ability. This is explained very well in one of young46's tubes and is the reason why I am selective in when I use my Phantom X.

     

    I have 3 gears or levels to which I can play: top, middle and low spec, and that depends on the game at hand, for instance I wouldn't consider using my quantized break method in a clash/ club game, I wouldn't even use the formula in club games, not even a fast formula method, there I go for 'aiming points' and Tekoma methods (to suppliment my own judgement), which are fast but effective for casual play....but I wouldn't want to contaminate my Phantom X's performance module by playing it any less than high spec (and occasionally middle spec), that's why you see my equipment rack change a lot.

     

    The forgiveness of the Phantom X is already noticeable indeed over my Max, I just know that putts are going in off-ding for a dinged read that the Max just wouldn't be able to cope with. That is because I know my read is 100% right - because i have laffer with snead-linear and the formula fine tuned, quantized break, putting power fine tuned - I know my offset is exactly right so I can 'see' the forgiveness when I miss the ding and the ball goes in, it's not a case that I got the offset wrong in the first place and the missed ding corrected for it - do you see??

    The accuracy improvements will transpire in time as I further mesh the gears on this supreme putter but at first it is the forgiveness you will notice and it is the cream of the cake!!

     

    The last thing to say is that you don't get used to the putter/ equipment - it gets used to you!!! The AI is very sophisticated and YOU are only a part of IT'S chain, you are not THE prime module believe it or don't but that's accurate. Once the AI/ performance module acclimatizes to your skill level you will feel a sudden release in performance, and it is this that 'you' perceive as 'getting used to/ to grips with it' - in truth it is 'it' getting to grips with you - that's the way around it is with AI, it is astonishing and phenomenal and many here won't like that and reject that notion - in that case you are wrong and living in times beyond your own permitted allowances - cognitive dissonance/ out of touch.

    Just to add here that a good example of seeing the A.I evaluating you is at the end of CTTH games when you get those pop up screens that kindly inform you what your best potential score is for that particular CTTH, the A.I is getting to grips with your performance and making predictions in much the same way - say it is combined with a clubs forgiveness it may roll a virtual dice (random number generator), and declare that if the number comes out below a certain figure (maybe a product of the clubs forgiveness rating and your adjudged ability in the form of some number/ metric), it will declare that under most circumstances an error of such magnitude can be 'forgiven' and really the ball went in the cup.... this does lead to the idea that your scores are already pre-determined and that the game is playing itself, this is something some of the best all-time players in this game have rejected and sadly walked away as a result - and we all get that feeling at some stage and it is up to us personally whether we accept it or we walk.

     

    But anyone considering the Phantom X - don't be dissuaded by some of the naive comments written above here - especially this moaner above, he's an 'easy tee legend' not even a fake champion, his view should be taken with a pinch of salt because he isn't qualified to use the Phantom X and doesn't know what he's talking about - damning judge deena!!

     

    It really is the best of the best and I bought it myself with my own winnings - that's because I don't need anyone and I've got money.

     

    Notice and Disclaimer:

    *** I have BBK'd him just to make sure he doesn't come back with something in his ignorance that I might find antagonizing, I do this to everybody I even suspect might land me in hot water these days. That's because I am a premium level performer now and y'know some people just get jealous and try all manner of baiting tactic when they know how good I have become, even some established top-rank have deployed this tactic because even they know it's coming - they are all going on my belt and some can't seem to face up to this inevitable fact. BBK = banned (from my wall), blocked (on the forums) and kicked (out of my life - in the event we are in contact on social media, email they will find I have burned all those bridges too, forever). Even close or long term friends will receive this treatment now - if I even raise an eyebrow in annoyance that's it because I don't need long term or close friends either - I don't need anyone, just myself, my very near-to-supreme skills over absolutely anybody in this game, and of course 'the money'***

    TQG

     

    - very close to becoming the best player in the game bar nobody now, I think it could be as early as spring 2020 let's say. Just a few minor adjustments have been made or as I call it 'preening the machine' - the putting model on laffer basically, it is now tuned to what I would consider to be 'gobsmacking'. It can handle almost every type of putt from any distance, elevation, camera angle - the current tuning has never demonstrated such supremacy before and I am considering marching straight in to the top tier with it instead of milking legend for as long as possible - that's how confident I am with the new arrangement and it is going to cream a lot of the top rank!!!!

     

    already making an impression.....

    A few proverbial rats under the boot there, wait until Spring with the M5, I'm going straight back to Legend of course - I like the money there and as I say on my profile - I don't need 'em, this was simply a case of popping my head round the corner to say 'helllllooo, don't forget me will you!!!' I don't need 'em but that ain't an excuse because I am scared or running away from 'em and this is a nice proof of that. I've got no fear or respect for any of them - apart from young46 who lets me on his channel and always says hello back y'know, but the rest are garbage who need collecting as far as I am concerned.

    It also says "don't mock me, don't laugh - it sounds like B.S but I am serious" - I'm close to becoming the best player in WGT land.

     

     

    TQG

  • fobby1980 United States
    288 Posts
    Sat, Dec 14 2019 9:45 PM

    LostArkitekt:

    I think a lot of the programming is done to get you to buy new stuff...otherwise, it shouldn't matter.  If the "specs" listed are better than other putters, then it should perform better than other putters.  Should it perform as good as a "Level 50" putter...of course not, but it SHOULD perform up to spec.  For instance, I just hit two putts that were up 17" and 48 ft away and up 21" and 48 ft away.  The latter one, I hit it just past the 50 ft mark (barely) on the 100 ft putt scale.  The ball raced 10 ft past the hole...21" is a decent incline.  The former (17") up, I put it basically right on the 50 ft mark, and it didn't even make it to the hole.  NO putter should have that kind of control when it says it has better control than the free putter you started with...no matter how "bad" the putter is.

    Terrain plays a very important role also. Say you have 2 identical length putts with identical elevation, however one is fairly flat for maybe 3/4 of the length with a huge sudden change in elevation. The other one’s elevation increase gradually. With the same putting power, I guarantee the first one will travel a longer distance. 

  • DoctorLarry United States
    3,493 Posts
    Sat, Dec 14 2019 11:11 PM

    Julius0007:

    This has become so misconstrued....when I first started this post it was to show the failure of wgt to be honest when advertising new equipment and not just throw out garbage for others to invest in without some kind of return.

    I did not in any way think that buying the level 98 scotty Cameron putter would make me a putting genius and greatly improve my game. I just wanted honesty in advertising....when I bought a driver or club that was advertised as longer distance or a slower meter or more accuracy....well guess what, I got a driver or club with longer distance, slower meter, or better accuracy. One of the reasons people upgrade is to get these better qualities. 

     

    You earlier said this:

    Julius0007:

     I immediately bought this putter and obviously thought I would gain even a little more accuracy and ability in my putting game....however, it was immediately apparent that this putter was some kind of joke (I am a mobile player and have been since I began in 2017, and a 10 in all my abilities, which definitely includes putting). 

    Your words indicated that you did not try this putter very long to learn the differences.  (This in spite of your assurances that you are a "10" in everything.............)

    This is the best putter in the Pro Shop - you have to work with it.  It is exactly the same as the Sabretooth that preceded it - exactly.  You said you noticed top players all had that putter - for good reason.

    IMHO, you should have not been so hasty in selling it back.  You have to play a new club in ranked mode to learn it - practice and putting greens will no work as well.

    I had the L94 Red Spider before I got the Phantom and rather quickly found the advantages of the Phantom.  It was not immediate, but with a little play, my results improved.  I have a long way to go with regard to reading putts, but this putter puts the ball where I aim it.

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