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Putting on Championship Greens

• Robert1893 7,666 Posts

  Sun, Jan 7 2018 3:02 PM

  SoCalJim23:

  Dave........Not sure I really understand your "formula" for putting on "Championship Speed Greens".

  Everything I've read.....is, you have to reduce the power of a putt for "Championship Speed Green Putts" by approx. 30%.  So, I've been using 10 ft. divided by 10 = 1 x 2.9 = 7.1 ft. to the hole.

  You and Dave are basically saying the same thing, just coming at it from different sides.
  
  You're saying reducing the scale by 30%; he's saying hit the putt at 70% of the scale. 

  By the way, most of the posts I see about how hard to hit a putt will typically describe it the way Dave does. In other words, most simply provide some sort of multiplier. And it makes sense to do it that way because, for lack of a better way of putting it, the math is more straightforward. Just multiply the number (for example, .7) by the scale (for example, 10-foot scale). 

• YankeeJim 25,827 Posts

  Sun, Jan 7 2018 3:40 PM

  Robert1893:

  You and Dave are basically saying the same thing, just coming at it from different sides.

  Let me give you a third side. Everybody seems to have these formulas to try and nail down a specific number and then try to get that number with various scales and such. What is completely lost is how you actually read a putt and determine how hard to hit it.

  The third side I'm referring to is the "feel" side. I believe I can putt with the best of them, my consistency is what does me in and that's a mental thing. The reason I think I can hang is because my putts are a very simple calculation-distance plus or minus elevation=how hard to hit it. 

  This is where my method of putting kicks in-I use the avatar move method. (Mobile players take a break, this won't make any sense to you.) I know each move on every scale. Because I use those moves I know how to hit any distance AND can switch effortlessly between green speeds. The trick becomes factoring in the actual roll of the putt.

  You can't  measure momentum. Have all the formulas you want, you just can't predict the momentum of a putt rolling downhill, you have to experience it. You put yourself visually in the IRL situation and ask yourself how is this going to roll? What's happening AFTER the hole? That will give you the clue.

  By way of example, I have 3 ways to hit a 12 foot putt on 13 greens. 1 move on my 15 scale is 8 ft (15  30  60  100 150 300 putter.) On a 12 foot downhill putt I would hit 1 move-8 feet. I know it will roll the next 4 feet because I've been there and I'm being cautious. Were that putt flat or uphill I know I can hit it harder, like 13 or 14. That moves me to my 30 scale because 2 moves there is 16 and just before the second move is 13-14. A flat 12 foot putt can take a 14 foot putt.

  I don't expect anyone to grasp this entire way of putting in one post, I've been doing it for 9 years. The gist of the story is not to get hung up on those calculations. They're gamer moves. Think like a real golfer and trust your instincts when you look at a line and know how you have to putt to get a specific distance. If you get the speed right the sides of the cup open up and you sink touch putts.  :-)

• Robert1893 7,666 Posts

  Sun, Jan 7 2018 4:05 PM

  @Jim
  
  I agree with you 100%. 
  
  While I do the calculations on putts, I do that in order to give myself an approximate idea of how hard I should hit it. But there are a lot of times that I'll then decide I need to hit it firmer or softer than what the numbers actually say. 
  
  But all of that only comes through a lot of practice. 

• BPeterson8256 2,908 Posts

  Sun, Jan 7 2018 4:15 PM

  Jim & Robert

  That is good to hear. I always questioned if I was doing something wrong, as much as I hear people talking about formulas, spreadsheets, and different calculators. This is why I have never even tried to share my specific method. It is not only a feel thing, but also changes a lot depending on the course, and even more the specific hole. Hopefully I am on the right path to getting good at this game.

  Brett

• lonniescott711 4,183 Posts

  Sun, Jan 7 2018 5:19 PM

  YankeeJim:

  Robert1893:

  You and Dave are basically saying the same thing, just coming at it from different sides.

  Let me give you a third side. Everybody seems to have these formulas to try and nail down a specific number and then try to get that number with various scales and such. What is completely lost is how you actually read a putt and determine how hard to hit it.

  The third side I'm referring to is the "feel" side. I believe I can putt with the best of them, my consistency is what does me in and that's a mental thing. The reason I think I can hang is because my putts are a very simple calculation-distance plus or minus elevation=how hard to hit it. 

  This is where my method of putting kicks in-I use the avatar move method. (Mobile players take a break, this won't make any sense to you.) I know each move on every scale. Because I use those moves I know how to hit any distance AND can switch effortlessly between green speeds. The trick becomes factoring in the actual roll of the putt.

  You can't  measure momentum. Have all the formulas you want, you just can't predict the momentum of a putt rolling downhill, you have to experience it. You put yourself visually in the IRL situation and ask yourself how is this going to roll? What's happening AFTER the hole? That will give you the clue.

  By way of example, I have 3 ways to hit a 12 foot putt on 13 greens. 1 move on my 15 scale is 8 ft (15  30  60  100 150 300 putter.) On a 12 foot downhill putt I would hit 1 move-8 feet. I know it will roll the next 4 feet because I've been there and I'm being cautious. Were that putt flat or uphill I know I can hit it harder, like 13 or 14. That moves me to my 30 scale because 2 moves there is 16 and just before the second move is 13-14. A flat 12 foot putt can take a 14 foot putt.

  I don't expect anyone to grasp this entire way of putting in one post, I've been doing it for 9 years. The gist of the story is not to get hung up on those calculations. They're gamer moves. Think like a real golfer and trust your instincts when you look at a line and know how you have to putt to get a specific distance. If you get the speed right the sides of the cup open up and you sink touch putts.  :-)

  +1 and thats how you putt . The main reason most cant putt is because they spend too much trying to do math and putting at the same time . Basic math is all you need and noting more . You dont need calculus trigonometery physics or nuclear science . All you need is some + or - basic math and put the ball in the hole .

  The most important part to putting is learning your putter . Then comes reading the breaks and green speed . Its only complicated when you make it complicated so keep it simple and it will be easy .

   

• K7JBQ 1,468 Posts

  Sun, Jan 7 2018 8:56 PM

   

   

  Well, at least it will be easier. But putting will always be the most difficult phase of the game, as it is in real life unless you can putt like Ben Crenshaw.

   

• bg444out 345 Posts

  Sun, Jan 7 2018 9:25 PM

  messaged u on your WALL. That's why people take 90 sec. to take a shot during a game, LOL. cheers, BILL

• SoCalJim23 420 Posts

  Mon, Jan 8 2018 2:15 PM

  Dave........Actually, my 2.9 Ft. calculation per 10 Ft. of distance for "Championship Speed Greens" DOES work.  But, I know, I still need a LOT of work putting on this green speed.

  Just now, I played all (18) Holes @ WGT's Best Of Par 5 Holes.....Black Tees....you know, the normal WGT course (not in a Country Club).  I kept track....I hit 12 of 18 (1 putts) during that round.  

  Everyone in this thread has had some VERY GOOD comments.....which I appreciate.

  IMO....too many players get all caught up in the "calculations" when putting.  Because, as we all have learned.....every single green has some ODD slopes.  And, putting from every direction of every pin location varies.  I realized long ago, that I just HAVE to get very familiar with every green.  Because....even if I do a perfect calculation, if I don't KNOW the green, my putts could be short or long.

  I rarely move the "putting target" when I put.  I hit left or right of the ding, when I have a break.  I putt here on WGT like I putt on a REAL Golf Course.......by feel.  But, know that I have to calculate to be able to get most putts close.....then, it's by feel and knowing the greens.

  I have NOT upgraded my clubs or putter....nearly as I high as I should have by now....and I think it's hurting my game.  I used to buy expensive balls.....but, now play with cheap balls....that makes a difference too.

  You have a much better putting average than I do....so, whatever you're doing, it's working for you.

• Capella99 2 Posts

  Tue, Mar 22 2022 2:07 PM

  I find the .7 on 13 greens too aggressive...I actually use .7 on 12 greens.