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Re: PRECISION FORGIVENESS BALANCE METER SPEED

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Wed, Aug 7 2019 5:46 AM by vpd10. 19 replies.
  • YankeeJim United States
    24,851 Posts
    Wed, Jul 17 2019 9:20 AM

    fmagnets:
    I thought I might be able to spare us all Jim's balsa wood putter analogy by explaining to him what Balance in WGT actually is, but I see I have failed. I can only apologise to the community :-)

    OK, you win, your words totally invalidate my perspective and experience. Thanks for the upbraiding.

  • fobby1980 United States
    198 Posts
    Wed, Jul 17 2019 12:15 PM

    I always thought the Balance factor to be the same thing that YJ stated, but apparently I was al  wrong. If so, what then is the factor that helps your long putts stay true to its line? 

  • fmagnets United Kingdom
    3,441 Posts
    Wed, Jul 17 2019 1:14 PM

    fobby1980:

    If so, what then is the factor that helps your long putts stay true to its line? 

    There is no such factor. Your input is power and direction. WGT then randomises the direction slightly based on your putter's Precision (and Forgiveness if you mishit), and randomises the power slightly based on Balance linking to the two aforementioned factors. Once you have hit the ball, the WGT physics take over. A putt leaving the blade with the same speed and direction from two different putters will behave in exactly the same way. You can see this if you play enough SOTW - different putter every week, but you never have to change your calcs or reads if you are a ding putter.

  • YankeeJim United States
    24,851 Posts
    Wed, Jul 17 2019 4:41 PM

    fmagnets:

    fobby1980:

    If so, what then is the factor that helps your long putts stay true to its line? 

    There is no such factor.

    I totally disagree. Your result of a swing is determined immediately upon clicking the shot so any rendering you see will have already been predetermined. The equation that dictates this has many variables and to say that balance in a putter is irrelevant makes absolutely no sense. It's one of the variables and however you want to say it, it factors into putting.

    Exactly how it does is left open to one's personal interpretation, however that may be influenced. This is a math game trying to replicate RL and putter balance is a big factor there.

     

  • fobby1980 United States
    198 Posts
    Wed, Jul 17 2019 5:27 PM

    IDK, WGT’s definition of Balance according to FMagnets just seems completely different than IRL. According to them, Balance means the back-to-front arc of the putting stroke itself and not the putter’s heel-toe counterbalancing action like we expect it to be. 

  • DoctorLarry United States
    2,794 Posts
    Wed, Jul 17 2019 5:46 PM

    Is the pissing contest over?

    Any more advice to the OP?  

  • fmagnets United Kingdom
    3,441 Posts
    Wed, Jul 17 2019 10:13 PM

    fobby1980:

    IDK, WGT’s definition of Balance according to FMagnets just seems completely different than IRL. According to them, Balance means the back-to-front arc of the putting stroke itself and not the putter’s heel-toe counterbalancing action like we expect it to be. 

    Not even this. A more recent mod than Nivlac reaffirmed what Nivlac posted when asking the programmers to explain Balance. He added that it was just a name that sounded like something to do with putters that was given to the linking value used in their formula. Nothing to do with balance in real life.

    If you choose to believe WGT, then it should help answer the OP's question. Precision is the most important thing (if it doesn't go where you aim it then you haven't much hope). Meter speed is perhaps the next important, because a slower meter increases your ability to ding and make use of the precision. Then forgiveness, either a high value helping you to get away with small misses, or a low value helping off-dingers. Then least important is perhaps balance, because without precision and forgiveness it has nothing to link to distance control.

  • fobby1980 United States
    198 Posts
    Thu, Jul 18 2019 9:31 AM

    Cynical me would say: sound like Balance was originally intended to be a real factor, like Shot Shaping, but you guys couldn’t implement it so now you’re just giving out vague answers. 

  • Faz2000 Australia
    88 Posts
    Mon, Jul 22 2019 4:45 PM

    In answer to the OP, I've had the Versa since level 70 and really like it. Whilst I'm nowhere near a "top" player, I'd say my putting is a bit ahead of some other elements of my game (eg off the tee, or scrambling yikes), and the Versa does a really good job. I can't blame many misses on the putter, to be honest.

    Going up through the lower level clubs, I sort of weight Forgiveness, Precision, Balance, etc all equally. My view was that a club that gave me more good stuff overall was better, almost regardless of what it was.

    The meter speed, though, is a priority to me. Having clubs with manageable and ideally consistent swings seems to really help with my timing. A stick with superb precision that I can't hit right is just going to hit superbly precise misses for me.

    I've certainly heard it said there's almost no need to upgrade from the L70 Versa, and so far I've not unlocked a club that I feel compelled to get to replace it. The L98 Sabertooth (RIP) did seem to have it covered in all respects, so that was my planned future putter... now I guess I will look at the Red Spiders - if I ever get there.

    As to what the different elements DO, I had assumed it was something like:

    Precision - how far off where you aim the club will typically hit. Higher precision equals smaller random variations.

    Forgiveness - how far off line from your aimed position the club will hit depending on whether you ding or not. Higher forgiveness means an off-ding is more likely to go where you aim (within random variations).

    Balance - how far off the distance you selected on the meter the ball will role. Higher balance means on a dead flat green the ball will roll to a distance more consistent with what you hit on the meter with lower random variations.

    Clearly the common thread here is random variations. To keep the game feeling vaguely real and challenging, every shot has a fudge factor to represent the infinite variables of the real world. Which of course creates situations where you can mis-aim, mis-hit, and still get it in, where random variations cancel each other out or (wonderfully) correct your mis-aimed shot.

    tl:dr L70 Versa is a good putter, there are other good putters, if you want to get really good you will have to practice and calculate - but I can't be bothered doing that.

  • vpd10 United States
    1,587 Posts
    Wed, Aug 7 2019 5:46 AM

    Balance and precision on WGT are useless, unless you hit the ding on any putt of more than 6ft, you miss.

    One would think that precision would allow one to miss the ding and "help" keep the ball on the intended path. Nope, you miss the ding the ball goes left or right of the intended path. The longer the putt the more the ball misses by.

    The only parameter that really does anything is the meter speed. Higher number, meter goes slower.

    I've seen players with low cost putters that can ding most of the time and make a very high percentage of long putts (over 10 ft). Then there is me. High lvl putter and miss ding more often than hit it. Miss a LOT of putts.

    I think it is a good marketing ploy by WGT to get more of your money.

    Real golf and WGT golf are not the same. :)

    Don

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