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Re: About spin value in ball

Mon, Nov 18 2019 10:04 AM by Jimac55. 18 replies.
  • fmagnets United Kingdom
    3,441 Posts
    Tue, May 29 2018 2:42 PM
    The top tracer info box indicates spin dot moved a %age above centre or a %age below centre, it doesn't mention topspin or backspin. You are right about the tutorials though. They are obviously mistaken, as I think the example I mentioned above demonstrates. Another example: hit any top-end ball and top-end short-to-mid- iron with middle spin dot, and you will still see the ball check up a bit on landing. There is clearly backspin on the ball, not zero spin.
  • Yiannis1970 Greece
    1,511 Posts
    Tue, May 29 2018 3:03 PM

    fmagnets:
    The top tracer info box indicates spin dot moved a %age above centre or a %age below centre, it doesn't mention topspin or backspin. You are right about the tutorials though. They are obviously mistaken, as I think the example I mentioned above demonstrates. Another example: hit any top-end ball and top-end short-to-mid- iron with middle spin dot, and you will still see the ball check up a bit on landing. There is clearly backspin on the ball, not zero spin.

     

    I believe what you describe has to do with the higher trajectory + the weight of the club. A light club like i9 can make the ball fly really high so the high trajectory favours the ball stopping. A i7 on the other hand, hits lowe so the ball does not stop so easily apart the fact that is heavier as a club. At least, in this way sounds logic to me.

     

  • fmagnets United Kingdom
    3,441 Posts
    Tue, May 29 2018 3:27 PM
    A ball with a high flight in zero wind landing on a flat green is still moving forwards when it lands, however high the flight. There is only one thing that can bring the shot quickly to a halt and back it up a little, and that is backspin.
  • YankeeJim United States
    24,852 Posts
    Tue, May 29 2018 4:44 PM

    fmagnets:
    There is only one thing that can bring the shot quickly to a halt and back it up a little, and that is backspin.

    The club attributes are in play here. Witness the CG wedges-flat hits back up without the spin on the 64w and 60w. Yianni's point illustrates the biggest difference in the 6-PW of the higher end sets. They all tend to stay put when hit flat.

  • ItsTooSweet United States
    148 Posts
    Tue, May 29 2018 7:51 PM

    fmagnets:
    The top tracer info box indicates spin dot moved a %age above centre or a %age below centre, it doesn't mention topspin or backspin.

    If you are in 40-50% rough and put full back spin on the ball (move the dot to the very bottom of the ball), hit the ball, then view the Top Tracer you will find the spin value is not 100%, it is less. It appears to me the spin value is not how far you moved the dot from center but how much BS is applied. The backwards arrow is also another indicator. The arrow points forward for top spin. I realize it doesn't specifically say "top" or "back" but...

    This along with the tutorial and also from a programming point of view, it would be very strange to program 25% forward, then convert it  to be a percentage of backspin. I respect your opinion and I understand your point about the wedges, but I guess I am just going to have to respectfully disagree.

    Chris

  • fmagnets United Kingdom
    3,441 Posts
    Tue, May 29 2018 9:04 PM
    I think it would be even stranger to program something which is a physical impossibility - topspin on a golf shot that isn't thinned. Notice in 30/40 sand, you can only get 51% 'backspin' on the ball. This exactly corresponds with how far down you can move the spin dot to reach the base of the sand. They have programmed a limit to represent not being able to get to the bottom of the ball. The 51% represents both the distance the spin dot has moved down, and the amount of extra backspin you are applying. Move the dot above centre and you are removing some backspin from the shot. I guess you could call it adding a little bit of topspin to a lot of backspin, but it still has backspin on it overall. I think it is just simplistic wording in the tutorial. They call it applying topspin to the shot, which is not possible. They could more correctly have called it applying less backspin. But maybe this is just pointlessly pedantic. If I was looking to simulate club and ball characteristics, and spin, I would assign a basic value of backspin to a shot based on the loft of the club and the power used. This base value could then be increased by the grippiness of the clubface and the softness of the ball, which is represented by the spin values of each. This combined backspin value could then be increased or decreased slightly by moving the spin dot up or down the ball to represent a knifing or sweeping type of strike. With apologies for the lack of paragraphs, I think this is what they have done.
  • ItsTooSweet United States
    148 Posts
    Wed, May 30 2018 8:40 AM

    fmagnets:
    I think it would be even stranger to program something which is a physical impossibilit

    WGT does this all the time. LOL.

    fmagnets:
    But maybe this is just pointlessly pedantic.

    You're probably right.

    Thanks for your insights.

  • Magivney0 United States
    1 Posts
    Sun, Nov 17 2019 12:39 PM

    let me understand forward spin less distance back spin more distance

  • Jimac55 United Kingdom
    61 Posts
    Mon, Nov 18 2019 10:04 AM

    It isn't quite that simple I'm afraid, topspin, (less pin actually if Mags is right, and he usually is), is a lower flight and backspin is higher flight then you have to take into account wind direction and the angle your ball hits the ground at.

    For example high flight into the wind means the wind hits the ball stronger and for longer so distance and roll reduced, high flight with the wind carries the ball further on the wind but the spin on the ball tends to stop it rolling as much.

    You have to balance it a bit, I find adding about a quarter down from centre gives me max distance on my driver.

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