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Re: WGT vs. TWO

Sun, Aug 30 2009 10:31 PM (91 replies)
  • nivlac
    2,188 Posts
    Sat, Aug 29 2009 3:54 PM

    Check your wall ES.

    WGT still has the better golf game overall and has the better offerings as far as winning real prizes go.  I'm sure once my TW character tops out at full stats and the novelty of winning fantasy cash has worn off that I'll get bored of it rather quickly as I have with that franchise so many times before.  Despite the things that are missing I'm still a loyal WGT'er and will remain to be in the foreseeable future, but tibbets is absolutely correct that playing TW makes WGT's shortcomings stick out like a sore thumb.

    Nevertheless, I find it to be fun for now because it's a change of pace and also because it's a totally different beast as far as the ball physics and presentation are concerned.  Nothing wrong with keeping tabs on the competition.  WGT needs to hear this stuff.

    If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.   -- Sun-tzu

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Sat, Aug 29 2009 4:18 PM

    To you, perhaps. I have presented clear arguments why I believe TWO cannot compete with WGT at this point. Remember that for every Tibbets & Nivlac, there are hundreds of thousands of mediocre Fatersons, so actually it's my feedback that is a lot more relevant for the everyday user than yours.

    To sum up, it looks like TWO currently cannot compete with WGT because: 1) There is no multi-player in TWO. That is to change soon, Nivlac says, and once it does, it will be a big plus for TWO. 2) Despite correctly configured hardware on my part, I have experienced gameplay issues with TWO of a dimension never even remotely approached here on WGT. To be precise, gameplay issues that prevent me from enjoying the game in the slightest degree. I have never had to get in touch with WGT developers in order for me to obtain basic enjoyment out of their product – although you advise me that that is what I need to do in order to play TWO. It seems unlikely that my troublesome experience would be unique on a world-wide scale. 3) The graphics of TWO is distinctly inferior compared to WGT. Yes, the way a game looks is not as important as the way it operates, but judged by WGT's graphics standards, moving over to TWO feels like a blow to the head – as if you suddenly lost 75% of the capacity of your eyesight. The imagery over there is so blurry and unreal; I could only smile sadly when the announcer was saying, as I was moving up to hole 8 (I think; the one at the edge of a cliff), "Enjoy the beauty of your surroundings!" Oh, really? Well, give me some HD photographs of those surroundings, and then I might perhaps start enjoying them, spoiled as I am by WGT's glorious imagery!    

    That, in short, are my reasons for saying TWO currently cannot compete with WGT, illustrated by what I believe are telling screenshots (even more so those made by Nivlac).

  • nivlac
    2,188 Posts
    Sat, Aug 29 2009 4:56 PM

     I think judging TW based on my screenshots (even in part) would be like judging the Mona Lisa with beer goggles on.  It doesn't tell you much besides the fact that I need a better PC.  It's not really their fault my rig sucks.  =P 

    In comparison, my wife's monster PC runs this game on mostly SUPER settings, except for Anti-Aliasing on Medium and look at it:

    #13 at Sawgrass

    The Venerable 17th @ Sawgrass:

    That is miles above anything my craputer can ever dream to handle.  HD?  No, but look at those reflections! I would be willing to use words like stunning, breathtaking and immaculate to describe that imagery.

  • tibbets
    1,043 Posts
    Sat, Aug 29 2009 5:01 PM

    Faterson my friend, you are quite deluded.  EA sports does a lot more than "compete" in all of the games it puts out:  They dominate the gaming market.  To allude that WGT has the upper hand in all of this is simply wishful thinking. TW will have multplayer and paying tournaments before the end of the year.  Then, as I stated in my very first post, the only thing that will separate that game from this will be the HD photographs...oh, and the mystery deviation.

    For every one of me?  Well, for every one of you Fatersons, there are 1000 people already associated and familiar with the TW systems.  That is what they are up against at WGT.

      Yes, a game is much more than HD photos.  You wouldn't know that from being here though.  The community presence from WGT is non existent.  Premium tournaments? Gone to sweepstakes.  Player involvement in development?  Non-existent.  Transparency in development?  Non-existent.  4 round tournaments?  Non-existent.  Changeable weather and pins?  Non-existent.

    All of the things above have been asked for over and over again since before you were even here Faterson.  The whole 'WGT listens" thing is a total joke to me.  They have their own plan and their own set of rules, and if it so happens that they throw us a bone every now and then, that doesn't really qualify as being a caring, listening company.  

    Tell you what, to sum up my point in one final, succinct way, I suggest you give WGT a ring on the telephone.  I have, and left a few long messages since that's all you can do.  I just wanted to speak to a live human being.  Still haven't gotten my call back yet.  I'm the first name on the front page of their site in the top 10 list, represented in a review from IGN and I don't get any call back?   I have emails out to the president of the company that go unanswered.  I don't care what business you're in, if that's the way you handle customers, if that's the way you think you can get away with treating your clientele,  you are DOOMED.

     

    *edit* Nice pics Niv :)

    *edit#2*  Faterson, I see you haven't even completed one round over there.  So much for your objectivity.

  • Crusty56
    136 Posts
    Sat, Aug 29 2009 5:13 PM

    The big question with TWO, is how much will EA Sports charge to play the game. Cost to play, and compete,  will be a big factor in which of these two games wins out.

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Sun, Aug 30 2009 3:40 AM

    nivlac:
    look at those reflections! I would be willing to use words like stunning, breathtaking and immaculate to describe that imagery.

    I wouldn't, but that may be a matter of personal preference.    I also think you chose overhead views for your screenshots that are always more impressive than regular in-game views; and it is these, especially, that appear mundane in TWO when compared to WGT. Anyway, a large number of TWO users won't be able to access the imagery captured in your screenshots, because a large number of TWO users won't be playing the game on top-of-the-line computers, just like you & I don't. So, the competitive advantage for WGT as expressed before, still stands: WGT's imagery is breathtaking for every site user, regardless of the computer they may be using. 

    Oh, and here are other points of advantage for WGT when compared with TWO that I forgot to mention last night: 4) TWO is currently far more susceptible to meter stuttering than WGT; that is a very important deficiency for an online game. Why more susceptible? Because, unlike in WGT, when your swing meter stutters in TWO, you cannot just let it pass and try another swing. If you don't click your mouse at all, the result is a misfired shot. And, I've seen the meter stutter quite often on the 10+ holes I've tried to play there so far. 5) There is currently no full-screen mode in TWO, and if you press the designated F2 full-screen shortcut, the game crashes immediately; apart from that, it crashes in other situations, too, with the "Unity Web Player" throwing up an error message. The crashes at TWO currently seem more frequent than at WGT. 6) The discussion forums over at TWO, despite using what appears to be the standard phpBB package, seem even more limited in functionality than the forums here at WGT. It looks like no email notifications whatsoever are sent to forum posters, even for threads that you start yourself. There also appears to exist no Active Threads and Your Posts link in the TWO forums. In short, TWO has employed a severely reduced version of the standard phpBB forum software, lacking many essential functions. Plus, the Forum Search is buggy, too; when I entered the words can't, see, ball (without commas, and in this order) in the Search box, instead of obtaining a list of threads to read, the following error message was generated:

    TWO Forums Search:
    The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: ball can see t.

    You must specify at least one word to search for. Each word must consist of at least 3 characters and must not contain more than 14 characters excluding wildcards.

    The error message makes no sense, as can be seen, and it even corrupted the search items and changed their sequence.

    tibbets:
    Faterson, I see you haven't even completed one round over there.  So much for your objectivity.

    You are surely jesting, Tibbets!    The game at TWO is currently unplayable for me, so you can't expect me to complete rounds there, even though I did struggle for over 10 holes at Pebble Beach. Expecting me to complete a round there is about as justifiable as to blind-fold yourself and then go out to complete a round on a golf-course. Here is the forum post I have just published on the TWO forums, for you, Tibbets, to read, because it summarizes the gravest current TWO bugs experienced by me, in a few sentences:

    Faterson:
    Hi, I got the invite to join TWO beta testing a couple of days ago.

    Unfortunately, the game is unplayable for me. I never see the ball after I hit a shot; instead, I'm presented with nonsensical camera views. For example, on hole 1 at Pebble Beach, I'm never shown the fairway after I hit the ball, but close-up views of rooftops instead. This even after I make a shot described as "Perfect!". But even if I'm shown the fairway on other holes, the camera just pans across the landscape, indicating where the ball might currently be flying, but the ball just can't be seen.

    What's more, after I make a putt or a bunker shot, I'm presented with a view of the green from about 150 yards away! So I can't see the ball moving in those situations, either. The same thing happens when I activate "Putting Preview": the camera instantly backs away from the green & shows it from a great distance, and nothing happens. I struggled like this for about 10 holes on Pebble Beach, then gave up. I also tried the St. Andrews course, but can't see the flying ball there either. My graphics settings were auto-determined by the hardware test, and are Super for the first 2 items, and Medium for the remaining 3 items. Switching to the "Presentation" camera view does not resolve the issue.

    Thank you for any help. 8-)

  • spikel
    100 Posts
    Sun, Aug 30 2009 5:48 AM

    Faterson, you seem very intelligent, and you also look to be tied up in what is essentially your own fanboyism. Nothing wrong with that of course, just defending your own territiory. Now let me point some things out in your previous post; sorry I'm too lazy to quote.

     

    You seem to think that HD picture graphics are far superior to CGI, now let me ask you something. Do the bushes and the trees sway with the wind? Does the water have a realistic reflection and movement? Of course, as Tibbets pointed out, can you have multiple pins and weather conditions? All drawbacks to the "far superior" technology.

    You are so biased against TWO that not only have you not completed a single round, but you're holding your own technical issues against the game. My camera is fine, I run it at max settings. I play on full screen all the time, no crashing. Post your issue on the TWO forums and I guarantee you a dev will read it, and maybe even reply.

    I'm not against either game, right now they both have some drawbacks. I see TWO as the one with more potential though. It is easier for them to give us more content and evolve the game in the communities image. They have already proven this to us.

  • Faterson
    2,902 Posts
    Sun, Aug 30 2009 7:41 AM

    spikel:
    Now let me point some things out in your previous post; sorry I'm too lazy to quote.

    It's no problem for you not to quote. It's more regrettable that you did not even read my post(s) carefully, and so some of the comments you made are irrelevant.   

    I don't use these quote boxes in my replies because they "look fancy". No, the reason is that by using quote boxes, I make sure I'm replying to what another poster actually said, instead of replying to what I only imagine or vaguely remember the other poster may have said. See examples, provided by you (alas!), below.

    spikel:
    Do the bushes and the trees sway with the wind? Does the water have a realistic reflection and movement?

    Even if trees don't sway & water doesn't move, I think the overall effect produced by those HD photographs on a WGT player far exceeds, esthetically speaking, any swaying trees & reflective water surfaces seen (just maybe: if you have a very capable computer) within the mostly blurry, and at times even cartoonish, imagery of the TWO game.

    spikel:
    can you have multiple pins and weather conditions? All drawbacks to the "far superior" technology.

    Now that's funny! When I say WGT is clearly superior to TWO today mainly because TWO has no multi-player, Tibbets replies, "But they're gonna have multi-player later on!" Guess what? WGT may have variable pin placements and bad weather later on, too. And I firmly believe that they will, especially the former.

    spikel:
    You are so biased against TWO that not only have you not completed a single round
    You evidently haven't properly read my previous post(s). I am not biased against TWO and I'd love to complete a round over there, but I cannot because the game is unplayable for me, forcing me to play blind-folded, so to speak, due to the ball almost never being visible. I hope this is made clear now!  
    spikel:
    you're holding your own technical issues against the game
    I'm not holding anything against it, but based (also) on the unplayability of the game on my machine (a top-of-the-line HP notebook with an independent graphics card), I simply claim I find TWO to be clearly inferior to WGT at this stage. The situation may change later on. If I am experiencing these issues, it's likely many other users around the world will experience them, too. That's what Beta testing is about; to identify potential issues among a wide variety of users.
    spikel:
    Post your issue on the TWO forums
    Well, that's amazing! A few inches above your own post, I have quoted my entire post I had already published in TWO forums, and you advise me to go post on the TWO forums? How am I supposed to discuss anything with fellow posters who don't even bother to read what the other person says? I'm not angry with you by any means, just pointing out that discussion makes little sense if you don't bother to really read what the other person says.  
  • Crusty56
    136 Posts
    Sun, Aug 30 2009 8:06 AM

    It seems TWO is unplayable, for you, because you can't see the ball flight. How strange that something so trivial, and unrelated to game play, should do that to you.

    As for hoping this game will one day have rotating pin placements, and bad weather.......yep they might, if and when they dump the HD pictures.

  • claremoreblue
    2,322 Posts
    Sun, Aug 30 2009 8:21 AM

    "How am I supposed to discuss anything with fellow posters who don't even bother to read what the other person says? "

    I can't even imagine someone trying to discuss anything with you Faterson. Your mouth never closes, and I think you could drive a truck in it!

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