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Coaching

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Fri, May 28 2021 7:14 AM

  There’s a video doing the rounds, someone playing their e-tour round and screen sharing.  Let's make the person playing A and the person screen sharing with them B, the conversation goes:

  
  

  B: Right there I like that wind aim and full power with an eight iron.

  
  

  A: Full back or take a tick off?

  
  

  B: I like that, a tick off full. 

  
  

  I missed off the players names and the video as I didn’t think it fair to single them out as I believe this to be widespread. I think It's been happening for years, especially in the major and team competitions.

  
  

  The difference here? And why don’t I report it rather than winge in the forum?

  
  

  This has been reported to WGT and the reply was that the player (A) took the shot so it’s fine. I believe Champ has said on another occasion “as long as it’s the players hand on the mouse”  That can only mean everyone is allowed to do this, which I think is wrong.  The game surely has to be more than a hit the ding competition.

  
  

  If it is allowed for someone to do this is it also allowed for the advisor to be paid for their time?

  
  

  When I complained about this before the response was, apart from the fact I was a troublemaker and other incomprehensible stuff, that there was no point in banning it as that would be unenforceable.  Should the possibility of enforcing it even be part of the conversation?  As things stand WGT say this is not cheating but if WGT make it against the rules it is, simple as that.  If people then do it they are cheating, that alone may discourage some and there will be the occasional falling out where more will come to light etc etc.  A short clock would also help.

  
  

  Whatever, WGT should tell everyone if they are allowed this coaching.

  
  

  To finish where this started, from the E-Tour rules 

  
  

  To enter an eTour tournament, log on at either the Platform at www.wgt.com/etour/, at www.etour.gg, on the Desktop Game or on the Mobile Game and register to enter the tournament and then play and complete at least one round of 18-hole stroke play.

  1. Use of multiple email addresses or multiple WGT user accounts to enter is prohibited.

  2. To enter, the registered user of designated WGT user account must personally play the Game or the entry will be disqualified.

  3. Players may not allow any third party to play the game in a Qualification using their WGT user account.

   

   

  So there it is “play the Game” simply means press the mouse :-((

  
  

• BrianSher 55 Posts

  Fri, May 28 2021 5:25 PM

  

• el3n1 4,494 Posts

  Sat, May 29 2021 5:48 AM

  What is the difference between coaching a less experienced player during the actual event that is not practice and collusion of those players to disadvantage or knock out the other player?

  The coach has an incentive to weaken the playing field and inturn increase their odds of winning.  This is clearly wrong, unethical, unsportsmanlike and should have been rectified with consequences...

  Doing nothing when the rules forbid collusion is just wrong.  

• bossbird 2,192 Posts

  Sat, May 29 2021 7:23 AM

  It’s not for me to say this is cheating or not , but in my mind it is cheating . What I don’t understand is why play a game if all you are going to do is cheat to gain advantage ? Maybe we all did it as kids , but as adults ... why .. indeed why play at all if you think it is the fair thing to do .

  I know some want to win at all cost but in my mind it wouldn’t be a fair and square win , I hope I am not in a minority over this , but who knows , I may be.!

• birchi 1,492 Posts

  Sat, May 29 2021 9:28 AM

  I have no idea how widespread this kind of stuff really is, but it's obviously a major problem, at least potentially.

  I would like to see a response from WGT here, but if I understand the current rules correctly, there's nothing stopping me from having three of my friends setting up new accounts, maybe under the account names "Tas0r", "Hans1" and "P3tra", coaching aka telling them step by step what to do in the qualifier for an event and then trying to kick out players in those brackets. For example for easing the path for my main account or just being petty by beating players I personally dislike. 

  As long as there are three actual people with their own IP adress and their hand on the mouse, it should be fine under current rules. 

  I don't know what options there are to actually fight this kind of abuse, but I'd at least like to see a rule clearly stating that it isn't allowed to receive any kind of advice during a round. It's probably not enforceable, but still would at least send a signal.  

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Sat, May 29 2021 10:54 AM

  birchi:

  I don't know what options there are to actually fight this kind of abuse, but I'd at least like to see a rule clearly stating that it isn't allowed to receive any kind of advice during a round. It's probably not enforceable, but still would at least send a signal.  

  Why the rule is important is that what is happening is not cheating, as WGT say it's not, by the simple move of saying it's not allowed they can change that.  How enforceable it is could be discussed later (short clocks would help) but the important first step is to make it that this is cheating.  I think more may be discouraged than you imagine, those that are not will be cheats whether they're caught or not.

  I'd think screen sharing at all during a competitive round should be against the rules.  We may be focussed on getting gameplay advice from a top player, where it's obviously wrong, but for me even someone telling me I hadn't changed the putter scale or selected club, was moving the wrong way for the wind, forgot to put on bs or about another of the many stupid things I do would be a big help.  How many of us could watch a friend play and not mention something like that when the opportunity was easily there?

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Sun, May 30 2021 3:08 AM

  pdb1:

    Oh so that's it . Like remote access . I couldn't figure how it could happen streaming .

    Regardless of the current rules . No one would accept a round with an opponent with an enhanced program like that .

  I'm not sure if you do get it, probably my bad initial explanation.

  Someone is playing in the E-Tour bracket, it is against an opponent but you play individually, like any bracket.  They screen share with one of the best players so that person sees everything that they see and they talk through Discord.  The better player isn't playing his round (probably already has) just helping.

  Before they hit their approach the better player tells them. 

  "Right there I like that wind aim and full power with an eight iron."

  They ask "Full back or take a tick off?"

  and get the reply "I like that, a tick off full." 

  The incident described was reported to WGT (with the audio) who say no rules were broken, as Simon said "as long as the person "playing" has his hand on the mouse".  Add to that they are allowed to buy focus boosts and I'm sure Simon could do as he said.

  It's probably even possible for the better player to play on the same course (at the same time) with the same clubs, position his approach in the same place and hit the approach first, same with putts.  There may be something to work out with different wind direction sometimes.

  I 'm sure the rules would change if someone did as Simon outlined, in the E-Tour Event there are proper rules and things like collusion result in disqualification.  Imagine if a complete novice was coached through they'd be completely on their own in the Live Event but I think finishing last gets $1,000.  So they shoot 80/90 and get the cash, maybe two have got through this way.  Lol I imagine E-Tour would have something to say to WGT, there may not be an E-Tour here anymore. 

  Changed days when WGT are saying the game is only about hitting the ding, you used to get banned for doing that too much :-/