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Online computer graphs?

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Tue, Nov 8 2022 9:28 AM (10 replies)
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  • Richie0613
    34 Posts
    Sat, Nov 5 2022 6:49 AM

    Are there WGT players capable of shooting a score of 55 or lower without online graphs?Players who use these and I have been told that 75 to 80% of good players use them, are basically unbeatable. I think it is a shame these are available because you are then playing a robot that only needs to hit the dinger. In my opinion this takes the skill out of the game. PGA players do not have this option. OK, I am ready for the attacks I will probably receive about this statement. I will not use them even though it costs me many defeats. When a player takes 35 plus seconds to set up a shot, I assume they are using graphs. Correct me with proof if I am wrong. People always figure out tricks to beat the system. It is a shame WGT cannot keep this from happening. I’ve laid out my frustration. Let the comment war begin, lol.

  • Dave33200
    2,932 Posts
    Sat, Nov 5 2022 9:17 AM

    I’m not sure what you mean by “Online Graphs” but if you are talking about charts that tell you how far you hit your clubs then yes, the pros do use them charts. Every pro & his caddie carries a yardage book with the club distance, yardage to the hole, or bunker, the lay of the green and + or – elevations. They also have hand written notes on every hole and what to do, like lay up or go for the green. So to say the pros do not use charts is inaccurate, in fact the have a bigger advantage, they also have a caddie with the charts giving them a 2nd opinion.

     

    And most take longer than 35 seconds to make up their mind on what shot to take. 

  • BWerthy
    1,009 Posts
    Sat, Nov 5 2022 10:28 AM

    Richie0613:

    Are there WGT players capable of shooting a score of 55 or lower without online graphs?Players who use these and I have been told that 75 to 80% of good players use them, are basically unbeatable. I think it is a shame these are available because you are then playing a robot that only needs to hit the dinger. In my opinion this takes the skill out of the game. PGA players do not have this option. OK, I am ready for the attacks I will probably receive about this statement. I will not use them even though it costs me many defeats. When a player takes 35 plus seconds to set up a shot, I assume they are using graphs. Correct me with proof if I am wrong. People always figure out tricks to beat the system. It is a shame WGT cannot keep this from happening. I’ve laid out my frustration. Let the comment war begin, lol.

    Your frustration is that there are better players than you.  I am a mobile player and use 3 index cards and a calculator to play (no excel sheets) I’m no top player, but I do alright, although if I didn’t use those things, I would be so frustrated at how horrible I was at the game. So I understand your frustration. 

    but back to your question, there are plenty of top players that do not use charts.  For one check out DBStronghold, that guy is fricking good and he uses nothing but his phone to play. Also Brighouse Champ uses nothing but his tablet and that guy is another beast   They’re out there, you just don’t know anyone  

    if you want to get better, find something to help, but if you want to stay mediocre, keep doing what you’re  doing.  I realized I didn’t want to play the game like you, so I learned what would work for me and take the good shots with the bad and just play for fun, not to be a top player. 

  • BPeterson8256
    2,903 Posts
    Sat, Nov 5 2022 12:18 PM

    Richie0613:

    Are there WGT players capable of shooting a score of 55 or lower without online graphs?

    YES

    Richie0613:

    playing a robot that only needs to hit the dinger.

    There is no mathematical formula that will work in all situations. That comment shows a complete lack of understanding the importance of practice and notes.

    Richie0613:

    When a player takes 35 plus seconds to set up a shot, I assume they are using graphs.

    This is another uninformed ridiculous comment formed out of total ignorance. You mention PGA players. Show me any PGA player that takes less than 35 seconds to decide how he wants to play a shot... EVER. And that doesn't even count the time to line a shot up once a decision is made on how to play it.

    For the record, I personally rarely use a chart or even a calculator (less than 5% of my shots). My exception is putting. I use a calculator for distance control. And even then, the way I putt and the formulas I use are 100% my own that I learned from trial and error.

  • DodgyPutter
    4,690 Posts
    Mon, Nov 7 2022 3:33 AM

    Dave33200:
    I’m not sure what you mean by “Online Graphs” but if you are talking about charts that tell you how far you hit your clubs then yes, the pros do use them charts. Every pro & his caddie carries a yardage book with the club distance, yardage to the hole, or bunker, the lay of the green and + or – elevations. They also have hand written notes on every hole and what to do, like lay up or go for the green. So to say the pros do not use charts is inaccurate, in fact the have a bigger advantage, they also have a caddie with the charts giving them a 2nd opinion.

    Jeez when it suits the advocates of using assistance then this is just a game and not comparable at other times it's less assistance that real golfers have.

    I'll take one aspect for now, putting.  What some of the top players do is use a stopwatch to count every dot as it moves across the screen and then work out from the average speed of movement and the distance I suppose (I'm not absolutely sure precisely what's done) how much the putt will break. They get something like this.

    N      Time                   PcTime                                  Comment

    1        00:00:03:59       24/10/22   18:10:37

    2        00:00:04:18       24/10/22   18:10:38

    3        00:00:04:59       24/10/22   18:10:38

    4        00:00:06:31       24/10/22   18:10:40

    5        00:00:09:67       24/10/22   18:10:43

    6        00:00:12:67       24/10/22   18:10:46

    7        00:00:16:88       24/10/22   18:10:50

    and feed it into their formula. Yes, that's for one putt!

    Others, and the same people in less important competitions, when other than friends are watching, or with a shot clock, will pick one dot that looks like the average and use that.

    I'm not sure what the equivalent for a real golfer would be but I suspect one of these would be involved or perhaps just a spirit level and measuring tape.

    In fact this is what the rules (of golf) now say about putting:

    The End of Green-Reading Books?

    Another rule implemented will see greens-reading books completely revamped. Players as well as caddies will be enforced to use “committee-approved” yardage books which contain general information about the green.

    A memo sent to all the PGA TOUR players and caddies state that these new books “will be very similar to a traditional yardage book and, with respect to greens details, will have only general information on slopes and other features.”

    Notes can be added within these books, however they must be notes from first-hand observation of the green or notes during a telecast. Tools and devices will not be allowed to be used to measure any contours or slopes the green features.

    “The purpose of this local rule is to return to a position where players and caddies use only their skill, judgment and feel along with any information gained through experience, preparation, and practice to read the line of play on the putting green,” stated a memo the sent to PGA TOUR players.

    This rule is now in place.

    While real golf, as well as other sports and online games try to stop the influx of RTA (real time assistance) it seems this one celebrates its use and rewards its most accomplished users.

    The original poster was right to expect to be attacked for voicing his frustrations and he even said that was what they were.  The comment about scoring 55 I'm sure wasn't meant to mean getting that score very very occasionally, I've probably managed that and the op certainly has (two 49's even), but more to do it almost every time.  The only times it not being managed by some are generally down to getting unfavourable winds, lol and they'll then complain about how the random wind makes the game a lottery.  They have reverse engineered the game in all possible aspects, so a random element is most unwelcome. 

    Dismiss it all as sour grapes if you want and applaud the technology race within the game too if that's what you see as the way to enjoy it.  It's all within the rules (probably). Those of us that think the game would be better, and is more enjoyable, without all the RTA are just as entitled to voice that opinion. 

    And yes, shot clocks would be a way of limiting the opportunity for RTA, probably not enough but a start. It may be necessary to cut out one or more of coaching, stopwatches, wind charts, advanced charts, simple and complex spreadsheets.........

     

  • DodgyPutter
    4,690 Posts
    Mon, Nov 7 2022 8:31 AM

    pdb1:
    I paid attention

    Sorry to resort to your partial quoting, but I really don't think you did or do.

  • Richie0613
    34 Posts
    Mon, Nov 7 2022 9:11 AM

    Asking me how I got to Tour Legend by guessing and praying is very disrespectful. I calculate distance, wind and elevation in my head. Figure on type of spin to use and move my aim to a best guess if left or right of the hole just like a PGA player would do. That is how the game is designed to be played. This will be my last reply, since this point will continue to be beat to death. The end!

  • el3n1
    4,491 Posts
    Mon, Nov 7 2022 4:09 PM

    DodgyPutter:
    The purpose of this local rule is to return to a position where players and caddies use only their skill, judgment and feel along with any information gained through experience, preparation, and practice to read the line of play on the putting green,” stated a memo the sent to PGA TOUR players.

    If only ... 

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