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Leveling up bs

Wed, Aug 10 2022 4:58 PM (34 replies)
  • PureGro1
    1,359 Posts
    Mon, Jul 4 2022 11:56 AM

    ct690911:
    So it really makes no difference (IMHO).

    Your right it does not make any real world difference, I will say as a beginner I played with only higher ranked players and these guys were TLs-TC. It was like watching a highlight reel playing with them for me.

    When I ventured out into Match play I was below legend and would come across TLs-TCs and would fully expect to be beaten bloody but something funny happened and I found that only about 25% of those tiers were good at the game- the rest had the "look" but not the skill set to match and I was beating them and watching them make shots that I knew would beat themselves. 

    Again I was new and didn't understand why this was happening, when asking about it- I learned of red tee tourneys...and all I can say is that to me its akin to pretending to be a surgeon when your really a home health aide. I see the uniform and except you can perform surgery, but in reality your just dressing up and pretending- it don't hurt or bother me, but it does make them look silly IMO.

  • alosso
    20,819 Posts
    Mon, Jul 4 2022 1:06 PM

    MarchieB:
    Really?!, I'm actually being corrected over 0.000001 ­čśľ
    In this case, yes.

    Too many posters have missed the difference between "at a number (like 60)" and "below the number". With averages, it's always the former.

    Also, 1/1000 is a reasonable fraction here, in average calculation, but 1/100000 isn't.

    Given by the power of the nitpicker ;)

    Paul

  • pdb1
    23,971 Posts
    Wed, Jul 13 2022 11:03 AM

    PureGro1:
    When I ventured out into Match play I was below legend and would come across TLs-TCs and would fully expect to be beaten bloody but something funny happened and I found that only about 25% of those tiers were good at the game- the rest had the "look" but not the skill set to match and I was beating them and watching them make shots that I knew would beat themselves. 

    I suggest that these were just not good Match Play players . I had the same experience . I won a huge amount of Match Play coming up . Beating tiers above my own . This would lower my average by 2 or 3 points at a time . Allowing me to skip playing hundreds of Stroke Play rounds that it would have taken to lower my average to that extent .I leveled up very quickly .

    But at the same time I also played thousands of Stroke Play .

    As a CC owner I had the opportunity to observe the journeys of many players .

    PureGro1:
    Again I was new and didn't understand why this was happening, when asking about it- I learned of red tee tourneys...and all I can say is that to me its akin to pretending to be a surgeon when your really a home health aide. I see the uniform and except you can perform surgery, but in reality your just dressing up and pretending- it don't hurt or bother me, but it does make them look silly IMO.

    Most were not , but I watched a good amount of Red Tee players as well . Not being able to play as many Red Tee tourneys as they would like in our CC . ( we had a limit ) .

    Some would go and create a CC of their own . Proceed to play until Tour Legend level was reached . Quit their own litle personal Red Tee CC . And return to ours .

    I would say I was aware of about 8 Red Tee'rs . Who then continued on to Champion and then Tour Champion .Virtually unbeatable players . By most of us .

    The thing was . There was no way to tell or know that they had spent a spell playing Red Tees . Because the other 90 % of their WGT journey they played long tees just like everyone else . And still do .

    Yes . That is what I am saying . Labeling those that may have used the fully legit and acceptable path of Red Tees to teir up as not good players or not able to hit the long ball , or fake , false or pretenders . Is a misnomer . A false stereo type . And just plain wrong . IMSO .

    If one thinks that someone doesn't play as well as their tier would suggest . Red Tees is not the answer .

  • pdb1
    23,971 Posts
    Wed, Jul 13 2022 11:29 AM

    PureGro1:
    Your right it does not make any real world difference, I will say as a beginner I played with only higher ranked players and these guys were TLs-TC. It was like watching a highlight reel playing with them for me.

    I agree with that . I also played with some very good higher ranked players . We would play MP Stroke Play , for the most part .

    In Alt Shot rounds . Things were different . The same GR8 players but a different mind set . The same GR8 play wasn't seen . It was more about getting through the 9 holes . Having good banter and fun . The rounds didn't count . So no one needed to play as seriously .

  • PureGro1
    1,359 Posts
    Wed, Jul 13 2022 12:00 PM

    pdb1:
    The same GR8 play wasn't seen . It was more about getting through the 9 holes . Having good banter and fun . The rounds didn't count . So no one needed to play as seriously .

    You definitely played with a different group...lol, yes we had/have good fun and banter and the rounds do not count to wgt but they do when playing for blood... :D 

    pdb1:

    Labeling those that may have used the fully legit and acceptable path of Red Tees to teir up as not good players or not able to hit the long ball , or fake , false or pretenders . Is a misnomer . A false stereo type . And just plain wrong . IMSO .

    If one thinks that someone doesn't play as well as their tier would suggest . Red Tees is not the answer .

    The first part- the bold, no one said that EVER. 

    The second part, when I play a champ or TC and every score you can see was shot on AVG buster named CC tourneys and I can see with my own lying eyes that they cant hit the long ball is not a stereotyping or a misnomer it is being honest. 

    If a good player used red tees to move quicker than another player, who cares? I would never have known if that were the case, The only reason I wondered what was up with these Cs and TCs was I could see with my own eyes that something was very wrong with their game play.

    Wrong shot types, wrong approaches...etc. which would have me look to the stats and the scores they have shot recently, trying to figure out if it was just a bad day for them or what.  

  • Mikey1874
    106 Posts
    Fri, Jul 15 2022 7:53 AM

    alosso:

    MarchieB:
    As Scott said you need to basically get your AVG down to 59.999999.
    Pardon me, but your quote and your number are both imprecise. He stated "60.000", and that is correct. It's sufficient to hit that number.

    MarchieB:
    There is a way to calculate exactly how many scores you still need to Tier up but someone else will need to comment on that as I don't know that.
    That would be difficult unless you know all the past scores.

    It's easier to determine how many rounds are missing to saturation, before the fact.
    BTW: I saturated as a Legend close to 2,000 rounds...

    For the OP @61.88 average, it can be said that a saturated score pool would encompass 61.88 x 500 = 30,940 strokes while a 60.000 ave. equals to 30,000 strokes. So, he needs to shave off quite a few strokes by eliminating higher scores from the pool and adding lower scores around 60. To say that he's close would be quite an exaggeration...

    My 2 Pfennig for the OP: Play the game without caring much, put your fun up front! The "numbers game" is quite a grind, exhausting if you concentrate on that!

    Hi Alosso I am 900 RR into TL and still not saturated please tell me I don't have another 1100 RR to go as it should be 750 RR .

  • thestylecouncil
    150 Posts
    Mon, Aug 8 2022 9:38 AM

    Mikey1874:

    alosso:

    MarchieB:
    As Scott said you need to basically get your AVG down to 59.999999.
    Pardon me, but your quote and your number are both imprecise. He stated "60.000", and that is correct. It's sufficient to hit that number.

    MarchieB:
    There is a way to calculate exactly how many scores you still need to Tier up but someone else will need to comment on that as I don't know that.
    That would be difficult unless you know all the past scores.

    It's easier to determine how many rounds are missing to saturation, before the fact.
    BTW: I saturated as a Legend close to 2,000 rounds...

    For the OP @61.88 average, it can be said that a saturated score pool would encompass 61.88 x 500 = 30,940 strokes while a 60.000 ave. equals to 30,000 strokes. So, he needs to shave off quite a few strokes by eliminating higher scores from the pool and adding lower scores around 60. To say that he's close would be quite an exaggeration...

    My 2 Pfennig for the OP: Play the game without caring much, put your fun up front! The "numbers game" is quite a grind, exhausting if you concentrate on that!

    Hi Alosso I am 900 RR into TL and still not saturated please tell me I don't have another 1100 RR to go as it should be 750 RR .

    Hi Alosso, I'm level 115, have played 1000 ranked rounds at TL(not including custom courses), still not saturated, in the past 3 days i have hit 2 scores of -10 on ranked 9 holes, one went down by .02 one by 0.01...don't understand how my scores are going up, at one point i was 59.84, now standing at 60.00...after a 10 under which went down .01....i hope i don't have to play another 500 rounds to saturate my score

    Regards

    TSC

  • pdb1
    23,971 Posts
    Tue, Aug 9 2022 6:26 AM

    pdb1:

    Labeling those that may have used the fully legit and acceptable path of Red Tees to teir up as not good players or not able to hit the long ball , or fake , false or pretenders . Is a misnomer . A false stereo type . And just plain wrong . IMSO .

    If one thinks that someone doesn't play as well as their tier would suggest . Red Tees is not the answer

    PureGro1:
    The first part- the bold, no one said that EVER. 

    It has been said MANY times . It has been implied MANY more  .

    PureGro1:
    would come across TLs-TCs and would fully expect to be beaten bloody but something funny happened and I found that only about 25% of those tiers were good at the game- the rest had the "look" but not the skill set to match and I was beating them and watching them make shots that I knew would beat themselves

    PureGro1:
    I would never have known if that were the case, The only reason I wondered what was up with these Cs and TCs was I could see with my own eyes that something was very wrong with their game play.

    For you to presume to know the many thousands round history of any player is ridiculous . And weird . I don't think your findings are accurate .

    PureGro1:
    If a good player used red tees to move quicker than another player, who cares?

    Exactly my point .

    Sounds like you do care . Some days you do . Some days you don't .

     

    PureGro1:
    I can see with my own lying eyes that they cant hit the long ball is not a stereotyping or a misnomer it is being honest. 

    Is that right ? What numbers led you to believe this ? I don't remember seeing a list/stat of individual drive yardages .

    There is a stat for drive length average .

    What stat gave you the impression that " they can't hit the long ball " ?

     

     

  • PureGro1
    1,359 Posts
    Tue, Aug 9 2022 7:42 AM

    pdb1:

    It has been said MANY times . It has been implied MANY more  .

    No, it actually hasn't Paul- Not by me, not in this conversation or any other.

    pdb1:
    For you to presume to know the many thousands round history of any player is ridiculous . And weird . I don't think your findings are accurate .

    You are a grade A  ______  if that is what you take from what I said...

    I didn't presume anything, when I played one of these people- If there game seemed off I would look at stats/score history where inevitably the person would shoot 26s on something called an "Avg Buster" CC tourney but could barely break par on any regular course. 

    A good player can use red tees to get better at the game, because it forces you into different shots. A bad player can use red tees to attain a rank they could never attain on tier tee's. This is deeper and I am overly simplifying it but does it really matter?

    pdb1:

    Exactly my point .

    Where was that point again? 

    This all started because I relayed HOW I FELT WHEN I FIRST BEGAN PLAYING. I now understand who they are and why I was seeing players whose skills did not match their rank. I only cared because I didn't understand how they could make those ranks without being good at the game.

    I do not care at all if someone wants to be a red tee Champion or TC, It just confused me when I first played- that is all.

    If your contention is a bad player who uses red tees to make a higher rank is just as good a player as anyone else...I am not sure how to respond to that.

    pdb1:

    Is that right ? What numbers led you to believe this ? I don't remember seeing a list/stat of individual drive yardages .

    There is a stat for drive length average .

    What stat gave you the impression that " they can't hit the long ball " ?

    Not a stat, I actually play this game- hence why I "believe my lying eyes".

    Im not talking about drives dude- talking about long irons and 3wds onto the greens- Neither gets used or practiced on red tees- SO one paying attention might see this quite easily. Anyone who plays Alt Shot knows how the course can change due to distance of shots and that it has to be accounted for.

    You are defending the idea that someone can JUST play short tee's using a driver and wedge 90% of the time and then play a normal length course without suffering from never hitting an iron or 3wd onto the greens...That is delusional.

  • alosso
    20,819 Posts
    Tue, Aug 9 2022 8:45 AM

    Mikey1874:
    Hi Alosso I am 900 RR into TL and still not saturated please tell me I don't have another 1100 RR to go as it should be 750 RR .
    The number of counting(!) ranked rounds is a big mystery from Legend on and difficult to judge from the outside.

    Luckily, time has solved your problem while I was distracted:

    Congrats to Champ status!!

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