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TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER,

Sun, Jan 30 2022 7:24 PM (109 replies)
  • JDGHOST
    6,077 Posts
    Fri, Jan 21 2022 8:16 PM

    SamSpayed:

    agree with Single Play qualifying rounds.  It's amazing how many times the top players (and others, I'm sure) quit-and-restart their qualifying rounds a billion times if they don't get a favorable wind on the 1st hole or they don't start at least -3 for the first 3 holes.  It would be nice to see some fresh faces competing in the live broadcasts.

    The live events should be pairings with a 60 or 90 sec timer.  I think 30 or 45 seconds is a little too fast, but they need to do something to move the games along.  Watching some so-called top players spend 5 minutes lining up a 12-foot putt is boring as hell.  

    That's what I was getting at...Bring some "Feel" back in the Game?? The single qualifying round would be Great ...I mean I'm sure most if not all the top dawgz will still get in there but i'm guessing  50's & 51's would not be all over the leaderboard?

    And giving the "dot counting calculator user's 45 or ok "60" sec clocks would raise the challenge factor is all....Don't the Best of the Best want a little more challenge?

    JD

  • SamSpayed
    4,120 Posts
    Fri, Jan 21 2022 8:37 PM

    JDGHOST:

    That's what I was getting at...Bring some "Feel" back in the Game?? The single qualifying round would be Great ...I mean I'm sure most if not all the top dawgz will still get in there but i'm guessing  50's & 51's would not be all over the leaderboard?

    And giving the "dot counting calculator user's 45 or ok "60" sec clocks would raise the challenge factor is all....Don't the Best of the Best want a little more challenge?

    Well, I think the "tools vs. feel" method of play is a separate debate.  I personally don't care what tools / spreadsheets / calculators / wind overlays / etc. people use as long as it works for them and they enjoy the game, although I'm a non-tools guy myself.

    But I agree 100% with your other comments.  Personally, I'd like to see more of a variety of players on the big tournament Leaderboards.  Kind of like we see on the PGA and LPGA tours from week to week.  There are a lot of really good players here in WGT.  I would like to see more of them get a chance to play on Saturdays in the eTour or Live Series, because they had an awesome round in the Single Play qualifier, and some of the other top dawgz didn't. 

    But as it stands right now, with unlimited play qualifiers, if someone (maybe an unknown) comes out of nowhere and shoots a low round, they'll still get eaten up by those big dawgz.  Why?  Because those big dawgz will just restart again and again when things aren't going well.  I've seen them do it on live streams.  And I think it's sad that WGT allows that.  

  • PureGro1
    1,084 Posts
    Sat, Jan 22 2022 8:12 AM

    SamSpayed:
    with unlimited play qualifiers, if someone (maybe an unknown) comes out of nowhere and shoots a low round, they'll still get eaten up by those big dawgz.  Why?  Because those big dawgz will just restart again and again when things aren't going well.  I've seen them do it on live streams.  And I think it's sad that WGT allows that.  

    Even in SP they will get eaten up, those "big dawgz" even w/o any restarts are still going to score very well and the last thing I want to see is "random player with 68 avg That got lucky on a SP" vs Fmagnets or young46 etc...in a major tourney. 

    IF you cant keep up with these guys in unlimited play- You have ZERO shot of doing it in SP except for the hope you play out of this world (and get lucky) and that others make mistakes.

    JDGHOST:
    And giving the "dot counting calculator user's 45 or ok "60" sec clocks would raise the challenge factor is all....Don't the Best of the Best want a little more challenge?

    Im more for the non best of the best to just work harder or be happy playing the game, The constant drone about making the game harder for the top performers so the lesser players have a better chance is so way outside my wheelhouse. Maybe just giving everyone a trophy would help.

  • BPeterson8256
    2,791 Posts
    Sat, Jan 22 2022 8:49 AM

    I do love the idea of single play. It is not a matter of a lesser player getting lucky. I think it is just the opposite. Without the restarts, you would see who could handle the pressure of recovering from a mistake. The same great players would still be there, but it would open up some positions on top of leaderboards to good players that don't want to play the same round over and over to try and better the scores of similar players who played 20 times to get there.

    PureGro1:

    Maybe just giving everyone a trophy would help.

    Principal Skinner Simpsons GIF - Principal Skinner Principal Skinner -  Discover & Share GIFs

    It is flawed thinking to think that making it more difficult will handicap the best players but not everyone else.

    Although if we change the shot clock to 10 seconds in all major tournaments, it would even things out as it would become a complete game of chance. Skill and knowledge from hours of practice would have little to do with the results. Better still... Let's make it to where every shot is completely random. Maybe instead of our avatars swinging a club, they could pull a handle on a slot machine to put the ball in motion. This would really even things out. This is BRILLIANT! Let's do this WGT. 

  • PureGro1
    1,084 Posts
    Sat, Jan 22 2022 9:27 AM

    BPeterson8256:
    I do love the idea of single play. It is not a matter of a lesser player getting lucky. I think it is just the opposite. Without the restarts, you would see who could handle the pressure of recovering from a mistake. The same great players would still be there, but it would open up some positions on top of leaderboards to good players that don't want to play the same round over and over to try and better the scores of similar players who played 20 times to get there.

    I do understand and agree with that on some level, I used to think this 100% until I was a member of a club that did all Unlimited Play tourneys. I was new and a complete WGT addict- would spend hours trying to pound down the best score possible in searching for that "perfect game". 

    There were a lot of people complaining that they couldn't win because I played too much, They switched to all Single Play and when the same people who complained about unlimited play now couldn't win in SP and only had one shot at it- they left the club.

    It seemed every week there was a new theory about how to get lesser players higher on scorecard....I almost quit playing the tourneys and found myself feeling bad for shooting well and eventually left that club.

  • BPeterson8256
    2,791 Posts
    Sat, Jan 22 2022 11:28 AM

    PureGro1:

    There were a lot of people complaining 

    And sadly there still are. I left my last club because of the complainers haters and crybabies (although the majority of the players there were awesome). It is also why the club I started has only one rule...

  • SamSpayed
    4,120 Posts
    Sat, Jan 22 2022 9:40 PM

    PureGro1:
    Even in SP they will get eaten up, those "big dawgz" even w/o any restarts are still going to score very well

    Usually, yes, but not every time.

    PureGro1:
    the last thing I want to see is "random player with 68 avg That got lucky on a SP" vs Fmagnets or young46 etc...in a major tourney.

    That's where you and I disagree.  I'd like to see the "random player" (as you put it) who shot a lights-out qualifying round, lucky or otherwise, get his or her moment in the spotlight.  You just want to see the same top players there every time.

    PureGro1:
    IF you cant keep up with these guys in unlimited play- You have ZERO shot of doing it in SP except for the hope you play out of this world (and get lucky) and that others make mistakes.

    Nonsense.  I'll give you an example.  Brett (BPeterson8256) is an excellent player.  He and I play stroke play games together sometimes.  If we play 10 times, he'll probably win about 7 or 8 out of 10.  On those 2 or 3 out of 10 that I win, do you really think it's because I "got lucky" and he made mistakes?  I can assure you that's not the case, and I think he would say the same.

  • HenryKawa
    1,661 Posts
    Sat, Jan 22 2022 10:20 PM

    Nonsense.  I'll give you an example.  Brett (BPeterson8256) is an excellent player.  He and I play stroke play games together sometimes.  If we play 10 times, he'll probably win about 7 or 8 out of 10.  On those 2 or 3 out of 10 that I win, do you really think it's because I "got lucky" and he made mistakes?  I can assure you that's not the case, and I think he would say the same.

     

    Really.   When I first started playing and was a very good player - I would win maybe 10 games in a roll, then because of another persons "F'ING" good luck and my "Bad" luck, I would lose one.  Then I got really good and NO ONE was able to beat me, even the loud mouth Young46 couldn't beat me.  

    All I'm saying is you have to be overwhelmingly good before you are untouchable, because anyone no matter how good you are can have a loss every so often by no fault of your own (that's how the ball bounces).  

    Since the new format, I only win 95 out of 100 games.  In the old system, I got to the point where in 200 games I may lose 1.  And that 1 lose was not my fault.  It was "bad luck".   

  • BPeterson8256
    2,791 Posts
    Sun, Jan 23 2022 7:16 AM

    SamSpayed:

    Brett (BPeterson8256) is an excellent player. 

    Wow & thank you

    SamSpayed:

    PureGro1:
    IF you cant keep up with these guys in unlimited play- You have ZERO shot of doing it in SP except for the hope you play out of this world (and get lucky) and that others make mistakes.

    Nonsense.  I'll give you an example.  Brett (BPeterson8256) is an excellent player.  He and I play stroke play games together sometimes.  If we play 10 times, he'll probably win about 7 or 8 out of 10.  On those 2 or 3 out of 10 that I win, do you really think it's because I "got lucky" and he made mistakes?  I can assure you that's not the case, and I think he would say the same.

    I am not sure I would win 7 or 8, and when Scott does win, it is not luck.

    I don't think we are that far off in how all of us are looking at this. We are just looking at it from different perspectives. This is a game that has been programmed within certain parameters. Once you have learned the game, as hundreds if not thousands of players have done over the years, it just becomes a matter of not making mistakes. 

    This is my perspective. If you are playing RSG for example in low winds, both par 5s are reachable. In those conditions there are hundreds of players that know how to shoot 50 (-20). Any score above that is due to making mistakes. Luck has nothing to do with shooting that "50". Although luck can help

    If you add in high winds, then luck becomes a factor on the two par 5 holes. A personal example comes from wk 43 18-hole single play for me. I had a rare "mistake free" round and shot a 52. If I remember right, I won by 2 strokes. I didn't have a single lucky shot in that tournament. I don't think I even made a putt of over 8'. 

    Another personal example is I made it through the European eTour Denmark bracket 2 years ago, which is obviously single play. I had been the 2nd #1 seed before, but this time I was a very low seed, probably the lowest seed to ever make a final. I am in my 50s, shaky, and play from an old laptop. In my final grouping of 4 I played against both Young and fmagnets, which are both mentioned in the example above. You may have not wanted to watch such a match up, but I did not embarrass myself at all. Mags won all 3 in this round, the rest of us went 1-2 and my win was against Young. I lost the score tie-breaker, and was out, but I had a legit chance and there are hundreds of players as good or better than I am who would also have a better chance in single play.

    It would be very rare to have a player just get lucky and rise to the top in single play, But it would expand the chance to the hundreds of amazing players there are in this game. Just look at the top of any showdown final. In a limited field of 100, there may be 10-20 players that shoot -17 or better. How many of those names have you ever even seen before? And look at the Kings Cup each week. Yes, the same great players are up towards the top, but look down the leaderboard to 20th, 30th, and look at all the wds. There are a lot of names that you normally see at the very top in the biggest tournaments. 4 rounds of single play does not allow for many mistakes against so many great players.

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    Cheers

    BP

  • PureGro1
    1,084 Posts
    Sun, Jan 23 2022 8:02 AM

    SamSpayed:
    Nonsense.  I'll give you an example.  Brett (BPeterson8256) is an excellent player.  He and I play stroke play games together sometimes.  If we play 10 times, he'll probably win about 7 or 8 out of 10.  On those 2 or 3 out of 10 that I win, do you really think it's because I "got lucky" and he made mistakes?  I can assure you that's not the case, and I think he would say the same.

    I think you know Brett is not the type player I am speaking of, He has the stats and score history to be right there with the "Big Dawgz".

    My random player example was a 68avg- Your using a TC that shoots lights out....lol

    SamSpayed:
    You just want to see the same top players there every time.

    LOL...that's messed up man, I like discussing this stuff but did you just turn my argument into a straw man? 

    I will say it once again, What I never would want to watch is "Paper Champ" that strokes 35-38 on most courses with an occasional 27-30 being matched up with mags or young or etc...in head to head play. I hope other great players find the time and desire to get up there and compete with them.

    BPeterson8256:
    You may have not wanted to watch such a match up, but I did not embarrass myself at all.

    See above, I was not speaking of a player of your caliber and could see that being a great match up.

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