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Coaching

• Cicero733 2,293 Posts

  Sun, May 30 2021 5:26 AM

  Question arises…IRL on the professionals tours don’t caddies and players share notes, info, discuss potential shots, offer advice, etc.? Pre game caddies walk off distances, make notes, and share with the player during the actual match. Caddies are terminated for providing incorrect info or making “bad” recommendations during a match. Kind of almost seems the same here. The player may ask for and receive advice from another party, but the shot makeup and ultimately the actual shot itself are decided upon and executed by the actual payer. Currently, during a WGT match isn’t the player permitted to use notes? If a more experienced player shared his/her notes with another player is that a rules violation? Seems maybe like a fine line here.

• birchi 1,492 Posts

  Mon, May 31 2021 12:49 PM

  Cicero733:

  Question arises…IRL on the professionals tours don’t caddies and players share notes, info, discuss potential shots, offer advice, etc.? Pre game caddies walk off distances, make notes, and share with the player during the actual match. Caddies are terminated for providing incorrect info or making “bad” recommendations during a match. Kind of almost seems the same here.

  Well, there is the small issue of the difference in difficulty between hitting a golf shot in real life and in WGT :D No offense, but this analogy makes zero sense because WGT and real golf require a completely different skill set.

  If you give me the world's best caddie on a real golf course, I will still fck up every single shot because I don't have the skills to execute the shot properly. Whereas, if anyone streams their round to me via Discord and I take enough time to explain to them what to do, it's literally me playing, with the exact same score I would shoot on my own account. Because this game is 100% knowledge what to do in any given situation. There's zero mechanical skill involved. 

• DodgyPutter 4,690 Posts

  Mon, May 31 2021 12:58 PM

  Cicero733:

  Question arises…IRL on the professionals tours don’t caddies and players share notes, info, discuss potential shots, offer advice, etc.? Pre game caddies walk off distances, make notes, and share with the player during the actual match. Caddies are terminated for providing incorrect info or making “bad” recommendations during a match. Kind of almost seems the same here. The player may ask for and receive advice from another party, but the shot makeup and ultimately the actual shot itself are decided upon and executed by the actual payer. Currently, during a WGT match isn’t the player permitted to use notes? If a more experienced player shared his/her notes with another player is that a rules violation? Seems maybe like a fine line here.

  Not even kinda, almost... and this is a computer game not real golf.  Lets play along though, we are talking about the E-Tour brackets here.

  So in real golf would this caddy be a much better golfer than the golfer whose bag he was carrying, would he play his round and then help someone play theirs in the same competition.  Perhaps someone in the other half of the same bracket, help them all the way through to the final until they met.  Clearing away the competition just in case.  Then onto another bracket and get someone through there.  Perhaps the second one wont do well when it comes to the Event, last of eight gets $1,000 though.  They could have someone good at hitting the ding in every bracket.

  We are talking about the very best players telling people exactly where to aim and what to hit, doesn't seem like a fine line to me.

   

• Cicero733 2,293 Posts

  Mon, May 31 2021 1:39 PM

  birchi:

  Because this game is 100% knowledge what to do in any given situation. There's zero mechanical skill involved. 

  Then why play the game? Seems that equipment and experience would play a big part. I don’t profess to know if this activity can be classified as cheating or not, but if the rules allow it….plus how do you stop dialogue, which can take the forms of actual voice or written communication, between players? If someone tells me I should hit 96% 8 iron 1/4 backspin aimed at the 2:30 o’clock position, and I miss the ding left whatever the possible value the suggested setup had is very much diminished. 

  Not certain there is an answer to this situation. 

• AndyJames123 77 Posts

  Mon, May 31 2021 1:41 PM

  its sad that the unnamed player feels that he has to be coached on every shot so that he can shoot low scores, and that he does it so blatantly 

• Cicero733 2,293 Posts

  Mon, May 31 2021 2:03 PM

  DodgyPutter:

  We are talking about the very best players telling people exactly where to aim and what to hit, doesn't seem like a fine line to me.

  So the issue is the very best telling the not so very best how to play a shot or possibly the whole game. But can the not so very best player consistently and precisely execute the instructions he has received? If he could, wouldn’t he be one of the very best as opposed to being in the not so very best group and wouldn’t he be giving advice as opposed to soliciting it?

  Again in real life if you are playing a 4 ball match or best ball or whatever it is permissible for a player to ask for and receive advice from his partner during the game. There are many situations where a player can solicit advice. Maybe that’s what WGT is emulating here? I don’t know. Just seems to me this is analogous to a golfer turning to his caddy and asking “what do you think I should hit here?”

  The part that baffles me is if we are talking about the top players what is their motivation, both in giving advice and in soliciting advice?  If WGT allows it then any player at any level if he so elects can have a “coach” in the background. He can also elect not to have a coach. I don’t know if there is a rule that states if your opponent has a coach and you don’t, your opponent must give up his coach during the round.

• birchi 1,492 Posts

  Mon, May 31 2021 3:07 PM

  Cicero733:

  but if the rules allow it

  I think the point of the original post was to urge WGT to change the rule.

  Cicero733:

  plus how do you stop dialogue, which can take the forms of actual voice or written communication, between players?

  Like I said in a previous post, I'm not sure if that's possible. Only idea I have would be to force people to stream their rounds with cameras on and have them play on a rather short shot clock like in an actual live event. That would at least complicate things a lot. Only talking about the qualifiers for big events where people play for real money, of course.

  Cicero733:

  Then why play the game? Seems that equipment and experience would play a big part.

  Well, yes, that's what I tried to say. I understand mechanical skill as how you physically perform your abilities. That's just not a part of WGT, in contrast to real golf, other sports or other competitive PC games. Here you have to know your equipment, the intricacies of the courses you play on and how to deal with certain combinations of winds, distances etc. in order to make a good shot. All of that I can transfer 1:1 to another player by just telling them what to do. 

• SimonTheBeetle 3,503 Posts

  Mon, May 31 2021 4:06 PM

  Why don't we just let the player in question play the way he wants, getting all the tips & advice from a better player AND invite him over to a live event where he'll have no choice but play it by himself? It would be interesting to watch, I bet. LOL

  Like in our society, you cannot possibly regulate everything with laws. Believe it or not, many parts of the social system heavily depend on civic consciousness and conscience. I think the same thing goes with this WGT world. All this to say, I agree that it's about time for WGT to establish a clear rule on this kind of abuse or exploitation of a loophole in the rules.