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Forfeiting At the End of a Round

Wed, Apr 7 2021 3:35 PM (15 replies)
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  • astro99
    1 Posts
    Sat, Mar 20 2021 8:47 PM

    I recently played a stroke play on the front nine of Bethpage Black against a Tour Champion and another Legend player.  I won the round and both forfeited on the last putt of the round.  What is the reason for doing that?  Is it a way to not have the round count?

     

    And  by the way the Tour Champion is not great player.  Is this how he rose up levels?  Basically forfeit at the very end if it is not a great round?  

     

    Thanks

     

  • SamSpayed
    2,995 Posts
    Sun, Mar 21 2021 12:13 PM

    astro99:
    I recently played a stroke play on the front nine of Bethpage Black against a Tour Champion and another Legend player.  I won the round and both forfeited on the last putt of the round.  What is the reason for doing that?  Is it a way to not have the round count?

    Yes, that's it exactly.  Unfortunately, those players are out there.  They protect their precious low averages and score history by forfeiting or restarting their round when they're not scoring well.  They think having a low average (or a higher tier) makes them look like they're a great player, which they're not.

    There are lots of red-tee Champions and Tour Champions out there.  Seems to be a thing for some people.  Best advice I can give you is just take satisfaction in knowing that you're a better player than they are, and don't sink to their level.

  • jacktrade51
    8,628 Posts
    Sun, Mar 21 2021 9:08 PM

    Sam is exactly right on there are averages and then averages.  In my early days of WGT, there was a player who played nothing but St.A short tees, got to TL (Champ/TC didn't exist then) and quit the game.  

    Not my approach, I try to learn every time I play.

    I am opposed to ff'ing ever.  Real golfers will play it out even if losing and this was a stroke play game.

    But there are reasons players will do it.  Most of those have nothing to do with average.  Got a better invite, pissed off from bad play, and gave up because couldn't win game come to mind immediately.  I am not justifying, just explaining.

    Tom.

  • alosso
    20,243 Posts
    Mon, Mar 22 2021 2:23 AM

    astro99:
    I won the round and both forfeited on the last putt of the round.  What is the reason for doing that?  Is it a way to not have the round count?
    Yes, players "protect" their averages.
    astro99:
    And  by the way the Tour Champion is not great player.  Is this how he rose up levels?  Basically forfeit at the very end if it is not a great round? 
    Nope.

    A quitted round doesn't count to anything (except for a few XPs). Win or loss of a MP stroke play round won't be recorded anywhere outside the round itself.

    In no way will such forfeit bring anyone closer towards their goals.

    1) The ranked round count remains unchanged. That way, no step towards saturation.

    2) There are less XPs, since the "completed" boni go missing => lower level, lesser clubs.

    3) On the long run, "bad" rounds do not affect the average. This is due to the non-linear accounting once saturation has been achieved: Bad rounds will be kicked out early, leading to a noticable drop of the average.

    Another point goes into quitting early and restarting (solo rounds): You fail to learn the back holes - it will take you longer to excel!

  • pdb1
    21,525 Posts
    Mon, Mar 22 2021 6:29 AM

     

    astro99:
    I recently played a stroke play on the front nine of Bethpage Black against a Tour Champion and another Legend player.  I won the round and both forfeited on the last putt of the round.  What is the reason for doing that?  Is it a way to not have the round count?

      There are several reasons for doing that .

    alosso:
    Yes, players "protect" their averages.

      Of course they do . It is a part of the game and there are strategies .

      I'm not even going to quote what Sam said . Wow . Stressed much lately Sam ?

      This is how I see it . There are correct and strategical reasons for doing that .

      Or some think " They sure showed you for beating them " . Might be their only reason .Not even knowing how WGT works .

      But others . May not be saturated .

      In regular Stroke Play rounds . Ranked Rounds . That is where the final score has the most impact on ones average .

      Even more so in single play tournaments .And Brackets .

      A score higher than ones average . Will move up the average . Unless of course you have saturated .

      But there are a steady amount of non saturated players . Playing  Moving up in tiers . And restarting the effort to become saturated .Many of them everyday .

      So every ranked multiplayer and Tournament round . Until saturation . Has potential for late exit .

      Those rounds also count in the " Game Completion Percentage " . Too many late exits will quickly get you an orange status .

      Many players avoid or play fewer , say Stroke Brackets . So as to not get caught in a position of withdrawing or forfeiting to save your average from going up . Not to mention the Bracket organizers and participants get a little irate with withdrawlers .

     

      That is why the genius format ." Single Player Unlimited Play Ranked Rounds " . Was invented .

      In that format . Is the only Ranked Round format that the " Game Completion Percentage " . Is disabled . No uncompleted round counts for anything . 

      One can play hundreds of   " Single Player Unlimited Play Ranked Rounds ". Quit before the 9th or 18th hole . Or any hole . And it/those rounds will not count for anything .

      The only round that counts in a " Single Player Unlimited Play Ranked Round " . Is the rounds (s) you finish .

      Really I don't know what their own reasons for quitting before the end of the round . Could be they don't know any of the above or care to know . And are just plain poor losers .

      I was aware of all of that coming up .. Played a hellalot of those " Single Player Unlimited Play Ranked Rounds ".

      But I also played tons of " Join a game " and " Create a game " . 2 , 3 , 4 , player Stroke Play .Another GR8 format . Where you get to play Ranked Rounds vs your peers . Most times new stranger / unknown players that are pretty damn good .This is your chance  step up , prove to  yourself . See how much all those " Single Player Unlimited Play Ranked Round " That you zoned out in for all those , seemed like years ( might have been ) . In your Country Cub . Has paid off . Those multiplayer rounds are terrific .

      Wasn't big on Single Play . Until I was saturated . Then I would play some . And a lot of Brackets .

      Here is another misnomer .

    SamSpayed:
    There are lots of red-tee Champions and Tour Champions out there.  Seems to be a thing for some people.  Best advice I can give you is just take satisfaction in knowing that you're a better player than they are, and don't sink to their level.

      Way back when . When I started hearing this . It sounded like these players were playing red tees exclusively . Their only objective was to get butt loads of low scores . Moving quickly up to Champion and Tour Champion .Most people assuming that these so called " Red Tee Players " . Weren't any good .

    SamSpayed:
    knowing that you're a better player than they are, and don't sink to their level.

      I say BS again . I was a CC Owner for 6 years . A very aware , active owner . I saw a higher turn over than probably any other owner . With over 700 players passing through our CC . Many reasons for that . It was expected .

      We also had a very active CC Forum . Red Tee CC Tourneys was one of thousands of topics . There were many in favor of running some Red Tee tourneys periodically . Some were opposed to having more than 1 per month or a few per year . But no one was in favor of having them steady enough for them to be abused .

      There were a couple few that when they were at Legend level . They went off and made their own little secret Red Tee CC . Knocked out a bunch of them and tiered up to Tour Legend . Deleted their little CC and returned to VOTSCC . Accepted with open arms and congratulated .

      These players . And some of the regular CC members that played a few Red Tee tourneys now and then . Were no slouches on the long tees . No they were very studied and versatile in all aspects of the game . Well rounded . A force to be reckoned with .

      Dozens of these players . Most have moved on and around . And are valid Champions and Tour Champions to be sure .

      That is what I /we saw and experienced regarding Red Tees . Some may have played a lot . But they all have a strong long game as well .

      Now I know that there is proof out there that people have proof that certain players absolutely abused that Red Tee format . In big ways to tier up much faster .

      Some consider that cheating . They also assume that these players would not have a long game . And there's the proof that they are below everyone else .

      Well I contend that if there really are some of these Long Tee challenged players out there . Then there has to be a very small number of them . An insignificant unmentionable , non threatening to anyone minority of them .

      And by the way . Do you critics actually play against them ? Do you win by like over 9 strokes a round ? Because they can't even reach the fairway ?

      No way there are more than a handful . If any . Surviving at Champion or Tour Champion for very long .

      Playing Red Tees . And consistently getting lower scores . Enough to actually be able to tier up faster . Could only be possible for a very small number of players . You have to be damn good .It is not a given .

      There are a GR8 and I mean a lot of us WGTers . That play our asses off . As much as any of the best . That got it like that .

      But we can play red tees . And get the same bad score as on the long tees . Red tees don't put that ball in the hole .

      This above I have witnessed first hand . And I believe is more true than other perspectives on the matter .

    jacktrade51:
    there was a player who played nothing but St.A short tees, got to TL (Champ/TC didn't exist then) and quit the game. 

       Yes we all knew 1 or 2 of those . Still a miniscule minority . Not a threat to anyone .

      I saw and predicted that when we had those occasional bursts of the hardcore Gamers . Flying through the tiers . That the first 500 rounds to saturate . Would be the end for them . And that's what happened . There were hundreds of them . When it finally got real . They disappeared forever .

      For the most part .

      Again . A small minority . Stayed on . Got hooked . loved the game . Just like us . And stayed .

     

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  • Mythanatos
    1,845 Posts
    Mon, Mar 22 2021 7:25 AM

    astro99:

    I recently played a stroke play on the front nine of Bethpage Black against a Tour Champion and another Legend player.  I won the round and both forfeited on the last putt of the round.  What is the reason for doing that?  Is it a way to not have the round count?

     

    And  by the way the Tour Champion is not great player.  Is this how he rose up levels?  Basically forfeit at the very end if it is not a great round?  

     

    Thanks

     

    bottom line it doesn't matter. forfeits save time and don't really affect anything in any kind of meaningful way.

    since it's head to head and no one else consider it the same as conceding.

  • BPeterson8256
    1,957 Posts
    Mon, Mar 22 2021 7:40 AM

    astro99:

    What is the reason for doing that?  

    Nobody knows for sure, and it shouldn't matter to you. If you knew that you beat them, then why do you care if they actually post their score? It won't show up in any stats that you won. And it will not affect your stats or you in any way.

    I am not sure how may players play this game, but there are no two players that play the same or for the same reasons. There are that many different ways to play, and just as many reasons why people play.

    They could have been protecting stats as many have suggested. They may have a controlling spouse that has had fights with them over how much they play (these are public profiles). They may have not wanted another player to know they played without them. They may have been trying out new equipment. They may have been trying a new putting method. They may have been trying out different kind of shots, or different ways of playing. It may have just been a practice round for them that they didn't want reflected in their history. And there are thousands more possibilities. 

    In the real world when I use to golf a lot, I never carried a card. However, I played with many players who did, and I don't know a single one of them that posted all their scores.

    Mythanatos:

    bottom line it doesn't matter.

    +1000

    Have fun with this game. Don't let other players affect how much fun you are having. 

  • HenryKawa
    1,527 Posts
    Mon, Mar 22 2021 8:16 AM

    jacktrade51:

    Sam is exactly right on there are averages and then averages.  In my early days of WGT, there was a player who played nothing but St.A short tees, got to TL (Champ/TC didn't exist then) and quit the game.  

    Not my approach, I try to learn every time I play.

    I am opposed to ff'ing ever.  Real golfers will play it out even if losing and this was a stroke play game.

    But there are reasons players will do it.  Most of those have nothing to do with average.  Got a better invite, pissed off from bad play, and gave up because couldn't win game come to mind immediately.  I am not justifying, just explaining.

    Tom.

    I totally agree with what Sam and Jack said.  "I" on the other hand, never do that.  I don't worry about my level or average because I seldom play ranked rounds.  So even though I appear to be an average player, everyone knows I am one of the best.    A few years ago, I played Young46 Match Play.   After the first 4 holes I was already 2 UP.   Since that day, I got even better and yet my average has not really changed.  

  • AcadianSlim
    2 Posts
    Fri, Apr 2 2021 6:27 AM

    I know it's poor sportsmanship, but I have, on rare occasion, forfeited a game our of shear frustration, just like one would do in real life. I consider it a compliment to WGT in making this game so realistic - I have the exact same frustration with my play here as I do IRL. 

    The last time this happened I was on a very difficult green and got so upset with myself, I changed my club to a 3 iron and took a full swing towards some houses - hopefully giving my opponent a good chuckle before quitting the game.

    I only wish there was an option to pick up my golf bag and throw it in a water hazard.

    We are human after all. 

  • Dynofine
    9 Posts
    Tue, Apr 6 2021 6:34 AM

    I agree wholeheartedly 

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