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Does V.E.M. really exist?

Tue, Nov 17 2020 2:31 PM (34 replies)
  • DufferJohn7
    3,563 Posts
    Sat, Nov 14 2020 7:25 PM

    Not only is it real but necessary. The game would get boring without it. Every hole would have a memorized and repeatable series of strokes to score birdey or better.

    The fun and addictedness of the game is in the challenge to figure out how to beat ever changing results.

    Sounds like the real thing to me.

    Have fun and hit em straight,

    John

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Sat, Nov 14 2020 10:34 PM

    DufferJohn7:

    The fun and addictedness of the game is in the challenge to figure out how to beat ever changing results.

    Sounds like the real thing to me.

    Exactly. 

  • Yiannis1970
    3,269 Posts
    Sun, Nov 15 2020 3:52 AM

     

    This will be a long one, so apologize in advance. The question about VEM has been discussed over and over again in this forum. I will try to summarize and talk about it...

     

     

    First things first. WGT is a golf simulation game which means a game which tries to simulate the conditions of a true sport: Golf. Despite all the efforts, simulator games will always be and always remain simulator computer creations. We can talk about and argue forever about the percentage of success a game has. Some will say it's 70% golflike, others 50%, others 90% and so on. The percentage of how much a game simulation looks like the real thing is meaningless as long as people like it and keep playing it. Enough with the premises, let's get down to the real questions here...

     

     

    WGT is a computer simulation, meaning a try of reproducing golf game in your screen using a certain program. The question that rises is: Is real enough? Is close enough to the real game? Answer: No, it isn't and will never be as any other simulation sport game out there. There are so many factors involved when you are playing in real life (i am not talking only about golf) that is quite impossible to replicate them and run them under algorithms. In real life, you can see different results on player's performance because it's the natural order of things. Maybe he/she didn't had a good day, maybe he/she was struggling with distances, maybe he/she couldn't read the winds right, maybe he/she didn't like the topology of the course, maybe he/she wasn't at a good day inside the greens and many many more reasons...

     

     

    In a game simulation like WGT these things do not exist. The whole game is based on certain mechanics like hitting the ding and placing the aimer to the right point according wind's direction. You regulate your stroke according wind's strength as well. In the greens, you try to read the putts based on dots movement and hit the proper speed. That's it...

     

     

    Now, i don't want to undermine under any conditions wgt's try to give us a fine product. If that was the case, i wouldn't be here for almost 7 years. But this is not the point...

     

     

    The point is on any sport simulation game, the difference between the game and the real life is that in the former you will see in top the same names. Why? Because they practice a lot, because they understand how the game plays, because they are taking notes or use some techniques that produce excellent result. Therefore, as a result, they end up playing every time really well cause is the nature of the game. A phrase is in order here: They mastered the game!! Under any conditions just by using couple of clicks in front of their monitor. Is something bad about this? No, absolutely not!! They have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours  working out how to hit low scores. I repeat: Is something wrong in that? No, absolutely not (again).

     

     

    So...at the end of the day, the question is this: WTF of purpose serves VEM? The whole notion of VEM is derogative for all the players who practice to get better. VEM is a virtual mode to manipulate gamer's play. I will say that again: To manipulate gamer's efforts (key word here: manipulation). In other words, to punish him cause after thousands of hours of practice has become a master. This is fkin inconceivable!! I WILL PUNISH YOU, CAUSE YOU PLAY TOO WELL!!   

     

     

    But nooooooooooo, what are you talking about? Vem is way to level things just a bit in order to bring close the players in terms of scores. But nooooooooooooooo, what are you talking about? Vem is a way to make game less boring, otherwise everyone could hit -18 in every round.

     

    Let's discuss a bit the above point of views...

     

    Point No1: Who says or what logic dictates that a player who plays wgt as a ''passatempo'' has to score close to a guy who spent thousands of hours practicing? What kind of sick notion is that? Is like saying that if it was the case, we could use vem in real life to pay the exact amount of money to a worker that works 10 hours a day and to another one who works one hour per day. So, the argument of vem's usage is not only derogative towards the players but lacks of simple/common logic in the first place.

     

    Point No2: A question to all vem fans: If by any chance had the power to close down vem, you would be able to hit -18 in two consecutive rounds? Rhetorical question...i let it be.

     

    So, the main and key thing for me about vem's usage is the word manipulation. We have a program (for whatever reason) which undermines the efforts of the players and practically decides who wins and who loses. This is just outrageous and destroys sportsmanship or good will to play EQUALLY (another cardinal key word) wgt or whatever. If you subtract the equal factor off a game is just not a game anymore, it's hustling. For me, VEM it's the ultimate b##it adopted and serves certain purposes which have nothing to do with how much realistic a game is. The game is what it is and we all play the same game. Is it real that i can dart a 3wd or a 3 iron with heavy tailwind? Of course not. Is it real that my driver rolls couple of yds? Of course not. Is it real that whenever play form the bunker with 30-40 or 40-50 lie i can go max 50 or 60 yds? Of course not. What about the roughs? same thing here too...

     

    Consequently, the whole argument that vems ''creates'' real simulation conditions is just childish. VEM is just a way to manipulate the game and that's all to it...nothing more or less.

     

  • Robbob1970
    113 Posts
    Sun, Nov 15 2020 3:59 AM

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US7806777B2/en

  • IRISHKING1916
    475 Posts
    Sun, Nov 15 2020 4:23 AM
    A honourable rage against Ability Communism!!! Yianny 😄 :p I think Vem , which my blind eyes has yet to notice , does bring the unlucky, unexplainable , unfairness of the real game into this simulation and therefore makes it more realistic and still the cream rises to the top.... don’t see it being much of an issue to be honest , so I respectfully disagree , but did enjoy reading this well written post
  • giraldin
    3,712 Posts
    Sun, Nov 15 2020 4:42 AM

    I was not really what the VEM, what I can say is that this game has OWN LIFE ................

    Signo De Texto Que Muestra Live Life On Your Propiwn Foto Conceptual  Regístrese Pautas Para Un PC Blanco Que Viva Bien Foto de archivo - Imagen  de your, pautas: 160893628

  • giraldin
    3,712 Posts
    Sun, Nov 15 2020 4:51 AM

    And once I read Yiannis' post, I reaffirmed myself in my comment: "This game has a life of its own". The question is: "who runs it?" Lol

     

    Who Runs That?

  • craigswan
    30,973 Posts
    Sun, Nov 15 2020 5:33 AM

    Does vem work better with starter balls compared to bought balls .

  • YankeeJim
    25,827 Posts
    Sun, Nov 15 2020 9:58 AM

    Yiannis1970:
    Consequently, the whole argument that vems ''creates'' real simulation conditions is just childish. VEM is just a way to manipulate the game and that's all to it...nothing more or less.

    This is a math game, pure and simple. Every shot is turned into an equation where you fill in the variables with decisions/execution you make on every shot. You determine the tables that the game refers to to fill in the other variables. It's called your history. You establish those "tables" by the scores you post and they adjust accordingly as you play. 

    Manipulation implies there are predetermined forces at work like someone behind a big curtain. Throw back that curtain and what do you see-a machine programmed to treat you like an individual with your own abilities transformed into a data structure that it uses to shape your success. YOU happen to be that "predetermined" force.

    This unique approach to a golf sim doesn't sit well with players that are used to getting the same result shot after shot like you do with a sim where everything resides on your local computer. They're used to 2+2=4 every single time and expect it. That's how you create boring and unrealistic results.

    Witness the current Masters tournament IRL. Tiger goes out and shoots a clean round 4 under par the first day. Why couldn't he do that the second round? Or the third? His clubs didn't change. The course was the same. So why can't he replicate his scores? Is someone behind the scenes manipulating his scores? Of course not, it's all him. Just like the scores here are all you and your history and that's what VEM creates-real life simulation. :-)

  • dedBuNNy
    1,919 Posts
    Sun, Nov 15 2020 11:07 AM

    "This unique approach to a golf sim doesn't sit well with players that are used to getting the same result shot after shot"

    "That's how you create boring and unrealistic results."


    Sorry, what?

    There is no game, I've ever seen or played which, in trying to pass itself off as a 'golf sim' has ever allowed for players to shoot with consistency rounds of 52-55 like this games does. 

    Can you honestly, with a straight face say that the resulting scores in this game are anything remotely realistic?

    I mean, seriously man, that's ridiculous, well hilarious actually, trying to imply such a thing.

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