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Tier up

Sun, Feb 28 2021 6:01 AM (26 replies)
  • Robert1893
    6,717 Posts
    Sat, Feb 15 2020 1:31 PM

    el3n1:
    Whether it is win rate, along with coin room bankroll, among other possible factors.  WGT has said nothing regarding the determining factors, but it is clearly happening.

    Exactly.

    A while back, I saw a Tour Champion who had only about a half dozen ranked rounds total. He's a mobile player. Clearly, WGT is using some sort of calculation. They're just not telling players what it is. 

  • SlickHunter
    1,024 Posts
    Sat, Feb 15 2020 1:53 PM

    You better believe that playing coin rooms can get you tiered up, it happened to me quite often. When I was Tour Master and got promoted to Legend after a coin game I was not happy, and I asked to be demoted back to TM, but it got denied. I made a post here asking why was I promoted to Legend with very high average, and that made me quit playing for 8 months. I came back playing, played more coin games, BAM another promotion to TL. I didn’t care then coz I was already a Legend. Well, the Champion promotion came after winning few matches in a row against Tour Champion. My theory on tiering up playing coin games, I think you must win many matches against players above your tiers. I don’t even care for Champion or TC, I prefer to be TL because my skill is far from champion.

  • el3n1
    3,680 Posts
    Sun, Feb 16 2020 6:54 AM

    I believe you Slickhunter...

    what we dont know... is WGT giving you and others credit for beating legitimate champs n TC on the same criteria as beating inexperienced or red tee champs n TC?  More people of all levels will explore coin games.  We know the mobile game has small nuances that differ from flash version.

    Desktop players advance a variety of ways, some dont have a lot of experience on mobile but now they are going to explore the new version and play lower tier mobile players who have thousands of rounds experience playing mobile but little xp on non apparel rounds.. this appears to be a can of worms to me.  And it will end up adversely effecting some strictly mobile players.  

    When i have played higher stakes, i sometimes look at ranked rounds on back tee courses versus the players average.  You see some with averages in the 40's and low 50's with scores in the low to mid 30's for 9 holes.  The two dont add up the same.  But beating that player suggest i beat a TC when they may just be an average legend in reality.

    Its a silly game and it doesnt all make sense.  But i understand them trying to promote better players... i just dont think all the factors are being considered.

  • SlickHunter
    1,024 Posts
    Mon, Feb 17 2020 6:18 AM

    el3n1:

    I believe you Slickhunter...

    what we dont know... is WGT giving you and others credit for beating legitimate champs n TC on the same criteria as beating inexperienced or red tee champs n TC?  More people of all levels will explore coin games.  We know the mobile game has small nuances that differ from flash version.

    Desktop players advance a variety of ways, some dont have a lot of experience on mobile but now they are going to explore the new version and play lower tier mobile players who have thousands of rounds experience playing mobile but little xp on non apparel rounds.. this appears to be a can of worms to me.  And it will end up adversely effecting some strictly mobile players.  

    When i have played higher stakes, i sometimes look at ranked rounds on back tee courses versus the players average.  You see some with averages in the 40's and low 50's with scores in the low to mid 30's for 9 holes.  The two dont add up the same.  But beating that player suggest i beat a TC when they may just be an average legend in reality.

    Its a silly game and it doesnt all make sense.  But i understand them trying to promote better players... i just dont think all the factors are being considered.

    I still think that playing rank rounds is the most effective way to tier up, at least you have an idea or can keep track of your needed rank rounds. My other assumption on tiering up in coin games. When I used to play 1k-1.5k single or 3 coin room matches in a month, my promotions came in not too far apart, maybe just months away. At TL, my coin room games have come down to only around 500 matches a month. This time, it took at least a year to become a Champion, so I think the amount of games you play plays a factor. I know it’s not the amount coins you win, because at the end of the week, often times I get demoted to lower diamond level by not winning enough coins. I only play Tokyo and Manhattan, and my winning percentage is only at 60%. It maybe faster to tier up in coin rooms if you play Bellagio, more likely to be matched with elite players. To me, I could careless what my tier is, it doesn’t alters the way I play. My all time favorite tier is Tour Master.

     

     

  • DodgyPutter
    3,824 Posts
    Mon, Feb 17 2020 12:17 PM

    el3n1:
    what we dont know... is WGT giving you and others credit for beating legitimate champs n TC on the same criteria as beating inexperienced or red tee champs n TC? 

    I'd be pretty sure all results against champs are treated the same.  Why would WGT complicate things for themselves in this way?

    Lets say they did, we know that some don't like playing in windy conditions.  So does a windy score from red tees at Pinehurst rank lower or higher than no wind and back tees at BB?  In general does a score at EH rank higher than one at WC?  Red tees would be just one of a few variables that could be looked at and at some point it becomes about opinions, what tier folk are is simple. 

    el3n1:
    When i have played higher stakes, i sometimes look at ranked rounds on back tee courses versus the players average.  You see some with averages in the 40's and low 50's with scores in the low to mid 30's for 9 holes.  The two dont add up the same.  But beating that player suggest i beat a TC when they may just be an average legend in reality.

    I've recently seen players with low averages, usually they still have scores like 4 included in them from whatever that bug was doing. That said looking at my score history I had to go down a few to find a sub 30 9 holes and there was a 34 in there but also a 18 hole 53.  If I keep scoring like that my average will be 53 not the (roughly) 61 it should be.  It's just the way it is with saturated avergaes.

    What stands out to me in this conversation about mobile promotion is that WGT are not giving any indication of what's needed at each, or any, stage/tier.  Well they didn't on the flash game either.

    What happened was people recorded what they did at each tier and said at the next promotion, others refined the requirements (by having the average but not the rr's for example) and gradually the knowledge of precisely what was needed was confirmed. There are still some unknown nuances but the basics are clear.

    I know it would be harder but the same could probably be done in the mobile game. My impression of the mobile game is of 3 hole match play, there are doubtless lots of other ways to play too but to concentrate there.  Say folk recorded each win and included what tier it was against, it may be something as simple as 3pts for two tiers above etc and a certain number of points for the promotion.  Clearly it wont be that simple (as folk will play various things) but it must be possible with enough data, folk would need to record everything.  With limited mobile access (none?) to the main forum one of the big mobile cc's would probably need to do it.

    I think I tried to get too much in there and ended with a bit of a muddle rather than helping much :-/

  • el3n1
    3,680 Posts
    Mon, Feb 17 2020 12:32 PM

    Some good food for thought @dodgyputter... 

    and, I agree saturation works against desktop players as well over a long period of time.  I have wondered whether there was a better way, but figure WGT won't change what they have used for so long, that it isn't worth trying to figure out.  

  • DodgyPutter
    3,824 Posts
    Mon, Feb 17 2020 3:02 PM

    I agree, saturation is something they like and will keep. I suspect it's in the mobile game in some form too, maybe with the three hole mp as simple as lost games don't count.  No two steps forward and one back and if you play enough and you'll be promoted, even with a 20% win record.

  • Yaman6
    6 Posts
    Thu, Feb 20 2020 3:46 AM

    I've got over 750 + ranked rounds since and avg below 59. But still not ranking up to champion ??? !!! 

  • TopShelf2010
    10,094 Posts
    Thu, Feb 20 2020 9:47 AM

    .

  • alosso
    20,192 Posts
    Thu, Feb 20 2020 9:59 AM

    Yaman6:
    I've got over 750 + ranked rounds since and avg below 59. But still not ranking up to champion ??? !!! 
    There are quite a few scores on Par3s, Par5s and Custom Courses in between - they don't count!

    Also, if you were a TL when they introduced TC, they may have taken "some" scores away from you.

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