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** Virtual U.S. Amateur: The Final Four is Set! ***

Mon, Sep 9 2019 8:31 PM (43 replies)
  • BHenke2
    396 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 7:21 AM

    kavvz:
    No, I didn't ask you that.

    You sure did because you asked the difference between a calculator and a excel spreadsheet. Maybe I will elaborate. You see one requires a computer to get the results and one does not. 

    You can try to say it is the same but I have seen the videos of players who use them and it is definitely not the same as using a simple calculator. 

    There is a reason the best player in this game who does not use a spreadsheet continues to win against players who do use them when they go to events where WGT does not allow them. 

  • kavvz
    2,109 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 7:40 AM

    BHenke2:

    kavvz:
    No, I didn't ask you that.

    You sure did because you asked the difference between a calculator and a excel spreadsheet. Maybe I will elaborate. You see one requires a computer to get the results and one does not. 

    You can try to say it is the same but I have seen the videos of players who use them and it is definitely not the same as using a simple calculator. 

    There is a reason the best player in this game who does not use a spreadsheet continues to win against players who do use them when they go to events where WGT does not allow them. 

    I sure didn't.

    kavvz:

    You seem to be saying you're ok with someone inputting numbers into a calculator, but not a spreadsheet.  

    Incidentally, you don't think there's a computer in a calculator?  ... ... 

    It's ok for mags to type numbers into a calculator to get how hard to hit a shot, but it's not ok for someone else to type numbers into a spreadsheet to get how hard to hit a shot.

    Is that what you're saying? 

  • BHenke2
    396 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 7:54 AM

    kavvz:
    It's ok for mags to type numbers into a calculator to get how hard to hit a shot, but it's not ok for someone else to type numbers into a spreadsheet to get how hard to hit a shot.

    Not once in my conversation did I say it was not ok for someone to use one. I originally said I would not watch a live stream competition where they were allowed. I also stated that it is not the same as using a basic calculator. Facts don't lie and if you show me someone who can beat the best player without using one in best of 10 matches you may have a valid argument. Use a spreadsheet to your hearts delight but when WGT says they can't be used in a live competition the results speak for themselves. 

  • kavvz
    2,109 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 7:58 AM

    Yeah I get it, you don't want to watch someone input numbers into a spreadsheet but you do want to watch someone input numbers into a calculator.  

  • Young46
    1,236 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 8:00 AM

    BHenke2:

    There is a reason the best player in this game who does not use a spreadsheet continues to win against players who do use them when they go to events where WGT does not allow them. 

    Slightly inaccurate statement. The only live event WGT/TopGolf has previously hosted was last year's VUSA ... which they allowed Naturali to bring his own PC and utilize his spreadsheet. The Denmark event was co-hosted by Dreamhack/European PGA Tour, WGT really didn't have anything to do with it, but I think we get your point.

    As a player who used spreadsheets exclusively up until May of this year I can tell you there's certainly a difference. I had to retool my game slightly to come up with calculations that were a bit more basic and could be done relatively quickly. With that said, if you truly have an understanding of this game it honestly doesn't make that impactful of a difference ... using a calculator just simply takes more time. You can argue most people don't have that level of understanding, thus a spreadsheet gives them a huge advantage ... you may be right, but at the end of the day it's not against the T&C's of the game. I will probably never go back to using a spreadsheet or using a ruler, but I don't knock anyone who chooses to utlize them.  

    So as a former spreadsheet user, I look forward to putting your statement above to the test in Vegas next weekend.

  • Agassi1991
    777 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 8:00 AM

    Hi

    I agree with this post :)

    Agassi1991 (Peter)

  • andwhy67
    2,816 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 8:01 AM

    Ezzy123450:
    while one finalist is known to reside and play in an ineligible country (just has a convenient 2nd address).

    Southern Hemisphere I believe, A guy called Pele played football for them.

     

  • MGB01
    1,420 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 9:29 AM
    different opinions is why there are forums.....personnally i think a live event we are not looking at someone working out a shot in their head or looking at a spreadsheet....we are looking at the screen waiting for the player to play the shot......if its 60 seconds or 45 seconds its irrelevent how they want to work out the shot because we are not looking at that......we are simply waiting for the shot in the time allowed.......just let the best players put on the best display they can in the time allowed.......looking forward to the show guys.....good luck to all
  • Yiannis1970
    1,843 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 10:04 AM

    Copying from the first version PDF about the tournament rules for the event played in Denmark:

     

     

    Use of third party applications will not (underlined word) be allowed (including but not limited to physical and virtual rulers , auto hot key apps, physical and virtual calculators), except for:

    - Paper notes

    - Clean sheets of paper and pen.

     

    The reason behind this rule is that WGT golf should be played as it is designed to; a raw skill based game that does not require aids to master.

     

    Wow!! and rewow!!! Was so happy...till i ''woke up'' violently after 48 hours...

     

    Rules second version:

     

    Use of third-party applications will not be allowed. The computer is reserved for game

    client and nothing else (including but not limited to spreadsheets, Excel, virtual rulers

    and calculators, auto hot key apps). Exceptions:

    - Paper notes (unlimited, although we ask for a reasonable amount); both

    printouts and handwritten documents

    - You can have whatever you like on these, except for information that is

    violating rules of this Rulebook (see below)

    - Clean sheets of paper

    - Pen

    - Physical calculator

     

     

    The reason for this is to create an even playing field for all competitors.

     

                                                          *************

     

    So...at the end of the day, the only question is this:

     

    Are you supporting the first or the second version of rules? Which of the two reasons cover your sense of logic on playing an online game?

     

    I have already expressed my opinion, so no reason to repeat myself.

  • Ezzy123450
    202 Posts
    Mon, Sep 9 2019 10:42 AM

    I suppose the layman thinks there is a difference between a calculator and spreadsheet ... sounds great.

    HOWEVER< as an Engineer, I have 2 calculators that can be programmed to d o EVERY calculation my spreadsheet does ... with the same inputs, and just as fast.

    So a calculator IS and external tool ... the same as a spreadsheet.

    WGT has absolutely no control of what external tools or software you use that does not interact with the Flash program.  Unless they decide to upgrade to Steam and/or implement BattleEye or some such program ... it stays this way.

    Therefore ... conjecture as to whether using spreadsheets and rulers is OK ... is a waste of breath.

    Clearly they want to allow calculator users (one comes to mind) an advantage at the live event.

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